[nous defions]

imported post

whattime wrote:

It sounds like "we got caught lets try to fix it" Looking at the Panerai forums the guys are all raving about how good this is....Don't get me wrong I like Panerai but if something like this would happen at Invicta. Invicta's CEO and all of the board of directors would already have been hung and burned at the stake...Just my 2 cents

By whom?

From what I have observed over the years, Invicta has been involved in several issues such as this and their fans defend their every action. Heck, if this had happened with a "high end" Invicta, they would swear it happened during shipping.

This is certainly a serious oversight on Panerai's part - and they deserve to be held accountable. But, Panerai is no Invicta. At least not yet (the night is young, however; let's see).

 

[andrema]

imported post

nous defions wrote:

whattime wrote:

It sounds like "we got caught lets try to fix it" Looking at the Panerai forums the guys are all raving about how good this is....Don't get me wrong I like Panerai but if something like this would happen at Invicta. Invicta's CEO and all of the board of directors would already have been hung and burned at the stake...Just my 2 cents

By whom?

From what I have observed over the years, Invicta has been involved in several issues such as this and their fans defend their every action. Heck, if this had happened with a "high end" Invicta, they would swear it happened during shipping.

This is certainly a serious oversight on Panerai's part - and they deserve to be held accountable. But, Panerai is no Invicta. At least not yet (the night is young, however; let's see).

That's it!! The official line is that "the movements must have gotten damaged and switched in shipping!" :b

 

[toecutter]

imported post

I think they're all full of crap.

Omega had problems a few years back and kinda covered it up.

Tag forgot to mention their use of Seiko tech. (oops)

Now this.

There's always some kind of drama.



As long as you remember, as you go through life, that it's all bullsh!t.

You'll be just fine.

 

[Luxury Bazaar]

imported post

i've heard of some cover-ups for defects, but the wrong movement? no excuse for that.

 

[soundaround]

imported post

four20 wrote:

soundaround wrote:

LOL, a scam? End of the world? If you own a Pam it is not because of what is on the inside. You can bul%$it all you want but, the reality is neither watch has more then $600.00 worth of parts in them. You buy a Pan for the status of owning a Pam! Why else would you pay $5000.00 for one??? Don't sit there and tell me that you really believe there is even a slight difference between the off the shelf standard 6497 in the second watch and the cleaned up version it is being compared to. That is like saying I bought the Mclaren F1 because it was 2 tenths faster in the quarter mile then a 1987 Porsche 928s Turbo. You buy the Pan because you can afford the Pan and you like what the Pan means to others that know. Call it status, call it who has the big di%$ challenge, call it what you wish. Don't sit there and claim that any watch has any value over the sum of it's parts. It only does because there is someone willing to pay! There was a time when watchmakers hand built watches down to the tiniest part and sold those watches for what they are really worth.

The only really sad part about the whole process is there are many out there that should not own a $5000.00 watch but, they do because of peer pressure.

I have no issue what so ever with someone spending what ever they want on anything they want but, don't play the BS game about fit, finish, and an astounding movement. I would love if this was done to make a point. If it was, did you get it?

except that the watch was advertised as having a specific mov't found in other models that has a high level of finishing.

fact is, it probably will run fine for many years w/o a problem and be as accurate as can be, but if you advertise something and charge a high premium for it, you'd damn well better deliver.

here's an example- you buy a Ferrari on the expectation that the engine bay is as nicely finished as the engine bay in another model running the same motor, only to find the valve covers that had a nice red crinkle finish are raw, unpainted metal with dings in it. sure, the engine's gonna run just as well and be mostly hidden from view, but you will know and feel like you were taken for a fool.

i'd be madder than a hornet if i were one of the owners of this watch

Using this analogy, would you take the intake off of your engine in the Ferrari? Just to make sure it had a decorated cam?

 

[four20]

imported post

soundaround wrote:

four20 wrote:

soundaround wrote:

LOL, a scam? End of the world? If you own a Pam it is not because of what is on the inside. You can bul%$it all you want but, the reality is neither watch has more then $600.00 worth of parts in them. You buy a Pan for the status of owning a Pam! Why else would you pay $5000.00 for one??? Don't sit there and tell me that you really believe there is even a slight difference between the off the shelf standard 6497 in the second watch and the cleaned up version it is being compared to. That is like saying I bought the Mclaren F1 because it was 2 tenths faster in the quarter mile then a 1987 Porsche 928s Turbo. You buy the Pan because you can afford the Pan and you like what the Pan means to others that know. Call it status, call it who has the big di%$ challenge, call it what you wish. Don't sit there and claim that any watch has any value over the sum of it's parts. It only does because there is someone willing to pay! There was a time when watchmakers hand built watches down to the tiniest part and sold those watches for what they are really worth.

The only really sad part about the whole process is there are many out there that should not own a $5000.00 watch but, they do because of peer pressure.

I have no issue what so ever with someone spending what ever they want on anything they want but, don't play the BS game about fit, finish, and an astounding movement. I would love if this was done to make a point. If it was, did you get it?

except that the watch was advertised as having a specific mov't found in other models that has a high level of finishing.

fact is, it probably will run fine for many years w/o a problem and be as accurate as can be, but if you advertise something and charge a high premium for it, you'd damn well better deliver.

here's an example- you buy a Ferrari on the expectation that the engine bay is as nicely finished as the engine bay in another model running the same motor, only to find the valve covers that had a nice red crinkle finish are raw, unpainted metal with dings in it. sure, the engine's gonna run just as well and be mostly hidden from view, but you will know and feel like you were taken for a fool.

i'd be madder than a hornet if i were one of the owners of this watch

Using this analogy, would you take the intake off of your engine in the Ferrari? Just to make sure it had a decorated cam?

removing the intake wouldn't expose the cams

you're missing my point- it was advertised as having something inside that it fact was something entirely different. doesn't matter if it's an Invicta or an OP. it's just wrong :madd

 

[silent sam]

imported post

Overpriced, overhyped, over here.Eat my pantaloons Sly. :%

 

[andrema]

imported post

four20 wrote:

soundaround wrote:

four20 wrote:

soundaround wrote:

LOL, a scam? End of the world? If you own a Pam it is not because of what is on the inside. You can bul%$it all you want but, the reality is neither watch has more then $600.00 worth of parts in them. You buy a Pan for the status of owning a Pam! Why else would you pay $5000.00 for one??? Don't sit there and tell me that you really believe there is even a slight difference between the off the shelf standard 6497 in the second watch and the cleaned up version it is being compared to. That is like saying I bought the Mclaren F1 because it was 2 tenths faster in the quarter mile then a 1987 Porsche 928s Turbo. You buy the Pan because you can afford the Pan and you like what the Pan means to others that know. Call it status, call it who has the big di%$ challenge, call it what you wish. Don't sit there and claim that any watch has any value over the sum of it's parts. It only does because there is someone willing to pay! There was a time when watchmakers hand built watches down to the tiniest part and sold those watches for what they are really worth.

The only really sad part about the whole process is there are many out there that should not own a $5000.00 watch but, they do because of peer pressure.

I have no issue what so ever with someone spending what ever they want on anything they want but, don't play the BS game about fit, finish, and an astounding movement. I would love if this was done to make a point. If it was, did you get it?

except that the watch was advertised as having a specific mov't found in other models that has a high level of finishing.

fact is, it probably will run fine for many years w/o a problem and be as accurate as can be, but if you advertise something and charge a high premium for it, you'd damn well better deliver.

here's an example- you buy a Ferrari on the expectation that the engine bay is as nicely finished as the engine bay in another model running the same motor, only to find the valve covers that had a nice red crinkle finish are raw, unpainted metal with dings in it. sure, the engine's gonna run just as well and be mostly hidden from view, but you will know and feel like you were taken for a fool.

i'd be madder than a hornet if i were one of the owners of this watch

Using this analogy, would you take the intake off of your engine in the Ferrari? Just to make sure it had a decorated cam?

removing the intake wouldn't expose the cams

you're missing my point- it was advertised as having something inside that it fact was something entirely different. doesn't matter if it's an Invicta or an OP. it's just wrong :madd

You are correct! It wasn't just a different grade of the same movement, it was a different movement.

I'll tell you what...I can guarantee that any of my "higher end" watches contain the movement as advertized. Without a doubt! OP just got greedy and took their customers for granted! Plain and simple!!

 

[Bikerplus]

imported post

Imagine you take a visit to your AD with your PAM 318, and he says : " this watch is a fake"
Can't believe Panarai has informed all the AD's around the world about the movement?
For $ 5000 you can at least expect a movement wich meets the Panarai standards,or you can might aswell buy a fake one with a seagull movement for $200 witch saves you $4800.

gr Ron

 

[greybeard54]

imported post

the Pam 233 WAS my grail.

 

[Bigfoot]

imported post

You should get what is advertised(END OF)

 

[jdm_z33]

Are we sure this is not a knock-off from China?Because that movement has cheapest Chinese movements written all over it....I must say though, some higher end knock offs from China has better movement deco. than this...

 

[I_Like_ em_BIG ! !]

imported post

LOL, a scam? End of the world? If you own a Pam it is not because of what is on the inside. You can bul%$it all you want but, the reality is neither watch has more then $600.00 worth of parts in them. You buy a Pan for the status of owning a Pam! Why else would you pay $5000.00 for one??? Don't sit there and tell me that you really believe there is even a slight difference between the off the shelf standard 6497 in the second watch and the cleaned up version it is being compared to. That is like saying I bought the Mclaren F1 because it was 2 tenths faster in the quarter mile then a 1987 Porsche 928s Turbo. You buy the Pan because you can afford the Pan and you like what the Pan means to others that know. Call it status, call it who has the big di%$ challenge, call it what you wish. Don't sit there and claim that any watch has any value over the sum of it's parts. It only does because there is someone willing to pay! There was a time when watchmakers hand built watches down to the tiniest part and sold those watches for what they are really worth.

The only really sad part about the whole process is there are many out there that should not own a $5000.00 watch but, they do because of peer pressure.

I have no issue what so ever with someone spending what ever they want on anything they want but, don't play the BS game about fit, finish, and an astounding movement. I would love if this was done to make a point. If it was, did you get it?

(This thread has, apparently been resurrected)

This is pure, unadulterated... BS!

I was on a European vacation and spotted my PAM. I come from a relatively small city where the most high end watches are a Rolex, Omega and TAG AD. There is not a single peer out there that even knows what my collection entails, let alone to, "put any pressure on me". I have a few watches that exceed your $5K limit and I know the entire history of every one of them. My "peers" don't have a clue! I only purchase watches that appeal to me on a close personal nature.

When I spotted my Panerai, I never thought about any of the BS, you mention! It was love at first sight (like every one of my watch purchases). I walked out of that store with the biggest grin you can possibly imagine and now, some, close to 20 years later. That grin is still there..., every time I put it on and look at it!









I feel a little bit sorry for you...

(Ooopps... I just noticed, the author of the above quote, has been banned. I can't imagine why?)

 

[AtomicTom]

(This thread has, apparently been resurrected)

This is pure, unadulterated... BS!

I was on a European vacation and spotted my PAM. I come from a relatively small city where the most high end watches are a Rolex, Omega and TAG AD. There is not a single peer out there that even knows what my collection entails, let alone to, "put any pressure on me". I have a few watches that exceed your $5K limit and I know the entire history of every one of them. My "peers" don't have a clue! I only purchase watches that appeal to me on a close personal nature.

When I spotted my Panerai, I never thought about any of the BS, you mention! It was love at first sight (like every one of my watch purchases). I walked out of that store with the biggest grin you can possibly imagine and now, some, close to 20 years later. That grin is still there..., every time I put it on and look at it!









I feel a little bit sorry for you...

(Ooopps... I just noticed, the author of the above quote, has been banned. I can't imagine why?)

You know a watch is extraordinary, or a watch company is special when
their' watches make you smile each, and every time you put one on like
this ILEB. I bet the watches helped make those 20 years fly by
as well right?! ..Hope you don't mind if I look at this one for a little while
here too. 😉🙂

 

[I_Like_ em_BIG ! !]

Thanx AT!!

You ROCK!!

 

[forzaferrari]

This thing is really ironic. With all the jokes about selling the Brooklyn bridge and all. I have three watches with this movement in them. One is decorated, two are not. Guess what, you put them on a timegrapher and there is like no difference between them.
However, like what plenty have pointed out beforehand. You should get what you're paying for no matter how little the difference is. Especially when you're talking about a 150 piece limited edition run. I guess Panerai underestimated how many people would take the time to actually open up a solid case back watch. I always do because first and foremost, I am a movement guy.
What I see here as the major sin is not so much the decoration of the movement that no one will ever see. It's the pedestrian Novodiac retention system holding the balance wheel jewel as compared to the best ever created Incabloc that was promised in the original advertisement.
Somebody above mentioned something about the sum of a watch. An example of this is the Panerai with its big reputation going for 5 grand. When you can buy a Laco Cuxhaven which features an enamel dial, much better construction and the same decorated movement with an exhibition case back for all to enjoy for 1 grand.
Gotta love this hobby...

 

[AtomicTom]

Thanx AT!!

You ROCK!!

Don't mention, and by the way, YOU rock ILEB ! 😉😎