Holy shitsnacks...

No idea what actual forum that link goes to (hard to tell from my phone) but that thread was a total **** show.
I had no idea there was such a hierarchy for fake watches, or such a rabid fanbase...


Im going to stick with my Steinharts, zodiacs, and deep blues.

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RWI Forum, "Replica Watch Information"

These clowns show exactly the kind of person who gravitates to buying fake watches, insular, demanding, and protecting at all costs their beloved "Trusted Dealers", all of who have nebulous websites listing gaggles of different alleged manufacturers.

They followed me over from another thread talking about the raid and closing of their beloved "Noob" factory by the Chinese police. Insisting you cannot buy from anything but from their TDs. They were particularly upset that I could make a bulletproof purchase of my fake via Amazon, even on a 0% interest payment plan of only $38 a month. Seems their TDs specialize in credit cards and wire transfer payments only. It would be a cold day in hell that I would give a counterfeit operation in China a wire transfer or my credit card #.

Not one of them can tell you exactly what and where this mysterious Noob is and if it has an actual website.

I purposely purchased the blue dial fake as most people won't even recognize it as a Rolex and wearing it won't make me look like a poser.

Actually, the watch itself is very well made, almost a carbon copy as to the case and bracelet and the fit and finish is indistinguishable.

The only visible tells that is a fake it the misaligned bezel pip and the engraving on the rehaut. The watch supposedly has a genuine ETA 2836 movement in it and another dude who joined in on the review claims he bought from the Mysterious Jack Wu as well almost the same time I did. He opened up the case took photos and even the Mods on that forum agreed it was a legit ETA.

He has kicked off the board a short time later after showing that, and I played stupid, telling them I couldn't open the case back on mine yet, just to string them along.

I knew if I opened mine up, which I intend to do next week, and if it indeed had an ETA in it I would be launched immediately as well since it seems none of their vaunted TDs have access to ETA movements to put in their fakes and rely on are cheap Asian clones.

When I started showing them my genuine mid-tier watches, they really started foaming at the mouth, they got pissed and accused me of bragging when I showed them my legit Breitling, Longines LLD, Eterna Kon Tiki, and my Monta.

Bottom line, these clowns almost to a man are arrogant posers, posing with fakes!

They are more insular and pompous about their bogus watches then the Rolex Fan Boys are on Watchuseek are about a "real" Rolex.

The fake gave me another added bonus, reinforced my opinion that I would never, ever purchase another Rolex again, fake or real.

Boring, dull, and not that superbly made that CNC machines in China can't replicate one to almost 1:1 as a clone for only a hundred dollars or so, even with 904L stainless, ceramic bezel and top notch lume.

Hell, if the Chinese could come up with a more original design with their own name and logo and produce a watch with the exacting fit and finish, they would really have something and it would be legit. Guess it's just easier to copy stuff though!

 

I think in certain areas, the Chinese craftsmanship is superb. Their equipment is surely on par with whst we have here in the US. Maybe not every factory in China, but its not like you can't get garbage watches made in other areas of the world....it isnt just Chinese watches.

My tisell for example is from South Korea and i find the finish work to be excellent. Certainly not as good as a modern rolex or omega, but at $225 it shows that you can get high quality craftsmanship, sapphire bezel, and a high beat Japanese movement at a very reasonable cost.

My phoibos watches are from Hong Kong and again, i find the overall finish work to be as good as the "swiss" watches i own at many times the price. My phoibos Wavemaster is not a sub clone, sapphire crystal, Japanese movement at +4 a day, solid links and endlinks, and a very nice engineer braceler for $260.

It shows that chinese manufacturing in modernized areas is just as sophisticated as anywhere else. I suspect that at some point in the near future a chinese watch company will start producing something more along the lines of grand seiko and charge accordingly.

I think the only reason we havent seen it yet is because its been tough for Chinese watch companies to break away from the stigma of low quality and counterfeit goods...but I think its coming.

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I agree 100 percent! Like it or not gang, China is on the march to quality pieces. I have a few, and for the few buck they cost, they're fun to have around. I still love my Swiss and German pieces, but my attitude is slowly evolving toward Pacific Rim manufacturers.

I think in certain areas, the Chinese
craftsmanship is superb. Their equipment is surely on par with whst we have here in the US. Maybe not every factory in China, but its not like you can't get garbage watches made in other areas of the world....it isnt just Chinese watches.

My tisell for example is from South Korea and i find the finish work to be excellent. Certainly not as good as a modern rolex or omega, but at $225 it shows that you can get high quality craftsmanship, sapphire bezel, and a high beat Japanese movement at a very reasonable cost.

My phoibos watches are from Hong Kong and again, i find the overall finish work to be as good as the "swiss" watches i own at many times the price. My phoibos Wavemaster is not a sub clone, sapphire crystal, Japanese movement at +4 a day, solid links and endlinks, and a very nice engineer braceler for $260.

It shows that chinese manufacturing in modernized areas is just as sophisticated as anywhere else. I suspect that at some point in the near future a chinese watch company will start producing something more along the lines of grand seiko and charge accordingly.

I think the only reason we havent seen it yet is because its been tough for Chinese watch companies to break away from the stigma of low quality and counterfeit goods...but I think its coming.

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ill go one further and say that its long been rumored on many watch forums that more than a few microbrands outsource their cases and bracelets to chinese manufacturing plants in hong kong, guanzou, and other modernized chinese provinces that are all equiped with modern CNC machines.

microbrands that slap a sellita, sophrod, or even ETA movement in there and call it a "swiss made" watch.



I have a cheap chinese special i picked up for giggles with a seagull automatic movement that runs damn near as accurate as my swiss movements.

(except my steinhart...the sellita in my ocean one has been running at +1 a day)
the seagull in that watch is a 28800 beat movement, and im pretty sure is an ETA clone just like sellita, STP, or sophrod.



china watchmakers will have an uphill battle im sure. Seiko took decades to get a foothold with people and were still somewhat shunned even after winning contest after contest against swiss models for accuracy. even today, Grand Seiko is still not considered on par with a Rolex. it may not be as prestigious as a rolex, but its easily on par finish wise and that spring drive movement blows the 3135 out of the water...
so does Omegas new co-axial movement.


uphill battle or no, the chinese luxury watch is coming. we already have a number of asian microbrands that are producing some amazing watches.

phoibos, tisell, Nezumi (they make some great chronos using seiko meca quartz movements)

these are NOT brands putting out cheap disposable watches. you can look into any of them and see that the craftsmanship is excellent.



personally, I think a lot of the hostility is coming from the perspective that some people feel their idea of "swiss" watches being the best is slowing being eroded by actual facts and comparisons from non swiss offerings, and that there is a slow realization dawning on these people that its very possible to get 80-90% of the quality of a swiss timepiece at 20% of the price.



the caveat, of course, is that you cant really count actual luxury pieces like AP, or a.lange, or PP, whose movements and finish work is all hand crafted...but more generic brands like c.ward? tissot? hamilton? dare I say it....Squale?!?
in all honesty, put an ETA movement in my phoibos or tisell and i would put it against a squale any day of the weed and twice on sunday.. scoff all you like, but ill put my money on the overall fit and finish being pretty much the same. at a quarter of the price. and thats really only counting if you insist on a swiss movement.



anyway...im done ranting and raving about chinese craftsmanship.

the TL;DR version of this is that chinese/other asian microbrands are on the rise and the quality is excellent.

 

Bingo, we have a winner!

7 or 8 years ago the Rolex fans could tout their fit and finish being the true difference between their sports watches and others, not any more!

There is this Legit Watch Reviewer "Bluefish" who has a Youtube channel. He did a nice review on the 2018 SMPc I have been eyeballing.

He has also done some "Caveat" videos of Rolexes side by side with Chinese fakes. The fake Subc could only visually detected with a loupe view of the rehaut engraving, and the markings not being etched deep enough. Other than that he claimed the cases fit and finish was identical to his legit Subc, which is the piece he used the fake to compare against.I

He also did a side by side of two Rolex Sea Dweller watches one real, the other a Chinese fake, in that one, he could only detect the fake because of the proximity of the bezel markers to the inner edge of the bezel.

Other then that he stated that if the Counterfeiters replicated the legit bezel, which am sure they are doing as we speak, not even a Rolex representative know the difference without handling the winding action of the crown, or removing case back and taking a look at the movement.

Panerai has even worse problems, they have a hand wound movement in one model that was replicated so well that the fake watch was actually being serviced by Panerai and Panerai watchmaker at a service center and he had the movement almost completely taken apart before he found a screw that wasn't quite in the right place and detected it as a fake!

 

The replica people are pathetic.

 

I have read much of the thread on RWI. A good laugh & their responses are too much!
The day has been coming for quite some time that folks are becoming more & more fed up with Rolex. I think they have taken things for granted too long & playing games by faking or manufacturing "shortages" will bite then in the ass. Other countries/brands are on the move & Rolex is not to any great extent. You have mentioned Monta - a great watch (I have 2) Rolex will always have their fans (me being one) but they are just one brand. So much more out there. I own 2 Rolex pieces. Neither one I went on a waiting list for. I won't do that. Nor will I pay MSRP. It can be done. I have one more new Rolex to go, & that will be it. So much to enjoy. Rolex is just a slice of my watch collection.



I enjoyed reading about the fun you had on RWI.

 

The counterfeit boys were especially enraged when I mentioned the Monta fit and finish was better than that on a Rolex, these clowns actually went on the defense of the watch they are ripping off, priceless!

As for Rolex and their restricting the manufacture of stainless models, not only will you have to pay MSRP, you can't find any to pay MSRP for! You are forced to go to the Gray Market and buy them there. Jomashop has them in stock, but a Subc Date is $12K and the Hulk is $18K.

Anyone who pays that much money for a watch that is stainless steel, and inferior to the new $4,500 Omega SMPc 2018, has either money to burn, or is a fool!

 

^^^ With Omegas fairly new CEO, Omega's pricing has soared & will continue to do so.
They are using some Rolex tactics.


My long time Rolex (& Omega) AD has most of what I want in store, or can acquire for me in short order. He does not however, keep them on display. He's playing the waiting game too. I don't fancy myself a fool, nor do I have money to set fire to. When my wife & I go on our semi annual watch vacation this summer, we will both get one more Rolex each. For us, it's not always about inferior or superior, rather what we decide we like based on a handful of factors. Omega are great watches. We have several each & are very pleased with both. If what we really have our heart set on is more than $4500 each, then so be it. And I won't pay MSRP on a Omega, Rolex, Hamilton or Tudor. Never have. Always less.



There is much dislike for Rolex out there. But this is nothing new is it?
To each their own way!

 

Kind of impossible to get a new Rolex stainless steel model for under MSRP, anywhere!

Check this out, on Jomashop the stainless Subc is going for the same price ($12,995) as a two-tone Rose Gold Yacht Master, now that's crazy!

https://www.jomashop.com/rolex-submariner-watch-116610ln.html

https://www.jomashop.com/rolex-watch-116621bkso.html

 

^^^ Chaz, you're correct that is difficult to get SS sports models for MSRP -
but it's not impossible. My AD has most of them & he will sell to me for a bit under MSRP.

 

Your a lucky man then, do you have to promise him you won't immediately flip them and then turn a tidy profit?

 

^^^ He's never mentioned this to me, but I know this is the case with some ADs.