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It is coming. Invicta probably won't change.
It is coming. Invicta probably won't change.
UNDER $100 "Reserve" Watches Soon?
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I want to toss this out there. Since there always is so much venom and anger when anyone questions the almighty Invicta I will state what everyone who knows me on this site already knows - I am an Invicta fan. I own many invicta watches including SAS, SAN III, Excursion, Grand Divers, Pro Divers, etc etc etc. I had new Invicta watches arrive this week. I will be watching the shows all this weekend. So I am an Invicta fan.
With this deal today - http://www.watchfreeks.com/view_topic.php?id=2169&forum_id=36 I am convinced that we will see a "Reserve" watch for $99 soon/eventually on one of the "daily deal" sites.
Add this to the fact we are seeing SAN III and SAS and Reserve Excursions all in the $200-$400 range and Venoms in the $300-400 range I believe we are seeing a real shift in the perceived and real status of the "Reserve" and "higher end" Invicta models. Even the old revered models with the 7750 movement are regularly available for thousands and thousands less then in the past - sometimes as low as the $500-600 range.
I HAVE POSTED MANY TIMES that I think the lower prices are great for everyone and allow almost anyone to buy a SAN II or SAS. I am excited to buy a venom someday very soon for under $300. We all know it is coming. I am excited to buy another SAN III for under $200. We all know it is coming soon. But that was not once the case. There were always different levels of Invictas and some were more expensive then others. That is not really the case any more.
Bottom line - many of the "Reserve" pieces and "higher end" models are just not that exclusive anymore. The pricing has dropped so low and continues to drop making these once "special and exclusive" models more like all of the rest of the other models. We regularly see new Pro Divers in the $125-150 range. We see the Scuba models in the $150-200 range, Now we see Reserves in that price range.....or lower.
This post is not just about the falling prices. It is also about what I foresee for the future. I could be wrong, but this is just my opinion.
With everything above being said, what I HOPE is happening, and obviously again I am just speculating, is that 2010 will bring a new "higher" level or new line of Invicta models that are at exclusive special levels again. I hope that Eyal has a plan for the brand that does include creating some special models and lines again. We all know that sales numbers are king to any company and high volume sales has always been Invcita's big thing by offering quality watches at affordable prices. But there always was a higher level out there. There always were models that were above the ones that everyone else could easily obtain or afford.
I guess we will see what happens.......
I want to toss this out there. Since there always is so much venom and anger when anyone questions the almighty Invicta I will state what everyone who knows me on this site already knows - I am an Invicta fan. I own many invicta watches including SAS, SAN III, Excursion, Grand Divers, Pro Divers, etc etc etc. I had new Invicta watches arrive this week. I will be watching the shows all this weekend. So I am an Invicta fan.
With this deal today - http://www.watchfreeks.com/view_topic.php?id=2169&forum_id=36 I am convinced that we will see a "Reserve" watch for $99 soon/eventually on one of the "daily deal" sites.
Add this to the fact we are seeing SAN III and SAS and Reserve Excursions all in the $200-$400 range and Venoms in the $300-400 range I believe we are seeing a real shift in the perceived and real status of the "Reserve" and "higher end" Invicta models. Even the old revered models with the 7750 movement are regularly available for thousands and thousands less then in the past - sometimes as low as the $500-600 range.
I HAVE POSTED MANY TIMES that I think the lower prices are great for everyone and allow almost anyone to buy a SAN II or SAS. I am excited to buy a venom someday very soon for under $300. We all know it is coming. I am excited to buy another SAN III for under $200. We all know it is coming soon. But that was not once the case. There were always different levels of Invictas and some were more expensive then others. That is not really the case any more.
Bottom line - many of the "Reserve" pieces and "higher end" models are just not that exclusive anymore. The pricing has dropped so low and continues to drop making these once "special and exclusive" models more like all of the rest of the other models. We regularly see new Pro Divers in the $125-150 range. We see the Scuba models in the $150-200 range, Now we see Reserves in that price range.....or lower.
This post is not just about the falling prices. It is also about what I foresee for the future. I could be wrong, but this is just my opinion.
With everything above being said, what I HOPE is happening, and obviously again I am just speculating, is that 2010 will bring a new "higher" level or new line of Invicta models that are at exclusive special levels again. I hope that Eyal has a plan for the brand that does include creating some special models and lines again. We all know that sales numbers are king to any company and high volume sales has always been Invcita's big thing by offering quality watches at affordable prices. But there always was a higher level out there. There always were models that were above the ones that everyone else could easily obtain or afford.
I guess we will see what happens.......
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I agree about the direction prices are headed, mostly downward for all brands and I don't really care if Invicta creates a new 'Reserve' line. That is up to them. I am concerned when a certain brand, whether it be Invicta or somebody else, loses value so quickly. This is a problem for me as I do feel I need to consider which brands are retaining value and which are not. This also affects whether or not I want to buy 'early on' or wait until the model 'settles in' in respect to a fair market value. It seems some mid-range brands are retaining their value better. It would be very interesting if somebody pulled together a comparison of brand value over the last year or two. I think it would tell us a lot about several brands and their ability to retain value and whether we as buyers should rush into a purchase or be more patient when buying.
Interesting, very interesting......
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I agree about the direction prices are headed, mostly downward for all brands and I don't really care if Invicta creates a new 'Reserve' line. That is up to them. I am concerned when a certain brand, whether it be Invicta or somebody else, loses value so quickly. This is a problem for me as I do feel I need to consider which brands are retaining value and which are not. This also affects whether or not I want to buy 'early on' or wait until the model 'settles in' in respect to a fair market value. It seems some mid-range brands are retaining their value better. It would be very interesting if somebody pulled together a comparison of brand value over the last year or two. I think it would tell us a lot about several brands and their ability to retain value and whether we as buyers should rush into a purchase or be more patient when buying.
Interesting, very interesting......
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I think Invicta is heading downwards fast. There has been so much brought into question about their claims, and when that happens they do everything possible to avoid answer the questions about the claims they make.
The Reserve line was always pushed as the best of the best. Now it is just like everything else...same movements as the cheaper models, now that they are sticking the alarm/GMT movement in anything they can get their hands on.
I think if they do introduce a new "high end" line that it will be hard to push on freeks as we realize, it may be "exclusive" until the steam dies down a bit, then they will once again start piling everything into the same line until it becomes a joke.
The thing with Invicta is, they just need to be realistic. They do have some good stuff. The original Pro Divers are far better than the new version, the original Grand Diver and Off Shore Pro Divers are just excellent watches.
Back to the Reserve line - I am not a movement snob at all...but turning out a certain number of watches with an ETA movement is a little more exclusive than taking the "Reserve" and sticking the same alarm/GMT movement in 10s of thousands of watches from the Reserve line down to the most basic models just sort of ruins it.
Take the SANIII, SAS, Akula and so on...they were somewhat exclusive, now they are not...change the dial color and sell it again...slap a new strap on it and sell it again until the only thing exclusive is having a different color dial...with or without holes...GMT or not...rubber strap...rubber strap with metal pieces and just an endless variety.
Anyways, I think you are right...there will be a sub hundred dollar Reserve. The Excursion has already been under 200 on one of the daily sites a while back.
I think Invicta is heading downwards fast. There has been so much brought into question about their claims, and when that happens they do everything possible to avoid answer the questions about the claims they make.
The Reserve line was always pushed as the best of the best. Now it is just like everything else...same movements as the cheaper models, now that they are sticking the alarm/GMT movement in anything they can get their hands on.
I think if they do introduce a new "high end" line that it will be hard to push on freeks as we realize, it may be "exclusive" until the steam dies down a bit, then they will once again start piling everything into the same line until it becomes a joke.
The thing with Invicta is, they just need to be realistic. They do have some good stuff. The original Pro Divers are far better than the new version, the original Grand Diver and Off Shore Pro Divers are just excellent watches.
Back to the Reserve line - I am not a movement snob at all...but turning out a certain number of watches with an ETA movement is a little more exclusive than taking the "Reserve" and sticking the same alarm/GMT movement in 10s of thousands of watches from the Reserve line down to the most basic models just sort of ruins it.
Take the SANIII, SAS, Akula and so on...they were somewhat exclusive, now they are not...change the dial color and sell it again...slap a new strap on it and sell it again until the only thing exclusive is having a different color dial...with or without holes...GMT or not...rubber strap...rubber strap with metal pieces and just an endless variety.
Anyways, I think you are right...there will be a sub hundred dollar Reserve. The Excursion has already been under 200 on one of the daily sites a while back.
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My question and the MAIN POINT of the thread was not the dropping prices. that is wonderful for all. The question/point was about having a higher end model or line within the Invicta family. That seems to be all but gone now. They could easily do it and still mass sell 10,000+++ affordable models of everything else to everyone else.
I really believe that the economy is not the reason for there lower prices. We all know Invicta's business plan in this economy to basically lower prices continually and have people hooked on buying 5, 10, 20, (or 100) Invictas in all different color combos of the same models, etc. And because of their price points are so low people perceive they are getting a good deal and Invicta is now able to power sell. They have found their niche in the market and that is fine. But their watches have virtually no long term value and that is a scary thing to anyone, even the casual collector.
But my question still remains about having a higher end Invicta line that does not drop after the initial excitement dies down. Many watch companies have not lowered their prices in the recent economy.
Even if you just buy because you like them (like I do) you are STILL SPENDING REAL MONEY and that money is basically wasted when the same watch drops in price by 50-75% in less then a year or 2. I am fine with the lower end models having fluctuating prices, but there should be consistancy (IN MY OPINION) in the higher end models
My question and the MAIN POINT of the thread was not the dropping prices. that is wonderful for all. The question/point was about having a higher end model or line within the Invicta family. That seems to be all but gone now. They could easily do it and still mass sell 10,000+++ affordable models of everything else to everyone else.
I really believe that the economy is not the reason for there lower prices. We all know Invicta's business plan in this economy to basically lower prices continually and have people hooked on buying 5, 10, 20, (or 100) Invictas in all different color combos of the same models, etc. And because of their price points are so low people perceive they are getting a good deal and Invicta is now able to power sell. They have found their niche in the market and that is fine. But their watches have virtually no long term value and that is a scary thing to anyone, even the casual collector.
But my question still remains about having a higher end Invicta line that does not drop after the initial excitement dies down. Many watch companies have not lowered their prices in the recent economy.
Even if you just buy because you like them (like I do) you are STILL SPENDING REAL MONEY and that money is basically wasted when the same watch drops in price by 50-75% in less then a year or 2. I am fine with the lower end models having fluctuating prices, but there should be consistancy (IN MY OPINION) in the higher end models
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LOL...ok, I got the question wrong then.
As for a higher end, they are coming out with the Imperious line. I know it was said that Invicta only provided financing and that they had no control or anything else...still, the trademark is registered and owned by Invicta so who knows what the real story is.
Anyways it is possible that it will be their new high end line...whether it would stay that was is anybodys guess, but I suspect there will come a time when it becomes just another regular part of the line up...this is of course if they do own the brand.
Word Mark IMPERIOUSGoods and ServicesIC 014. US 002 027 028 050. G & S: WatchesStandard Characters ClaimedMark Drawing Code(4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARKSerial Number77723755Filing DateApril 28, 2009Current Filing Basis1BOriginal Filing Basis1BPublished for OppositionJuly 21, 2009Owner(APPLICANT) Invicta Watch Company of America, Inc. CORPORATION FLORIDA 3069 Taft Street Hollywood FLORIDA 33021Attorney of RecordHoward NatterType of MarkTRADEMARKRegisterPRINCIPALLive/Dead IndicatorLIVE
LOL...ok, I got the question wrong then.
As for a higher end, they are coming out with the Imperious line. I know it was said that Invicta only provided financing and that they had no control or anything else...still, the trademark is registered and owned by Invicta so who knows what the real story is.
Anyways it is possible that it will be their new high end line...whether it would stay that was is anybodys guess, but I suspect there will come a time when it becomes just another regular part of the line up...this is of course if they do own the brand.
Word Mark IMPERIOUSGoods and ServicesIC 014. US 002 027 028 050. G & S: WatchesStandard Characters ClaimedMark Drawing Code(4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARKSerial Number77723755Filing DateApril 28, 2009Current Filing Basis1BOriginal Filing Basis1BPublished for OppositionJuly 21, 2009Owner(APPLICANT) Invicta Watch Company of America, Inc. CORPORATION FLORIDA 3069 Taft Street Hollywood FLORIDA 33021Attorney of RecordHoward NatterType of MarkTRADEMARKRegisterPRINCIPALLive/Dead IndicatorLIVE
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I agree with you James, the $99 Reserve is coming! As far a s having another exclusive line, as long as it's offered on Shop, it won;t remain exclusive. The Shop is all about volume. I'm not gonna sit here and complain about getting some of my Reserves for ridiculous bottom line pricing. I just understand now that what I'm getting is NOT exclusive nor is it high end and I'm cool with that. When I finally decide to shell out the iron for high end it won't be from the "I". Nothing wrong with having a little diversity in the collection.
I agree with you James, the $99 Reserve is coming! As far a s having another exclusive line, as long as it's offered on Shop, it won;t remain exclusive. The Shop is all about volume. I'm not gonna sit here and complain about getting some of my Reserves for ridiculous bottom line pricing. I just understand now that what I'm getting is NOT exclusive nor is it high end and I'm cool with that. When I finally decide to shell out the iron for high end it won't be from the "I". Nothing wrong with having a little diversity in the collection.
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TUNAKLLR wrote:
TUNAKLLR wrote:
I agree with Tuna 100%. I've said it before the 'exclusive' Invictas are no big deal for me. If I want high end pieces I know were to get them and it is not with Invicta (or Croton, Swiss Legend, Android, Renato, etc.). I own Invicta and as I stated in other threads I am moving away from them. But not because of the reserve line status, I just think there are many brands that sell watches that I can love and that these same watches can retain more of their value.I agree with you James, the $99 Reserve is coming! As far a s having another exclusive line, as long as it's offered on Shop, it won;t remain exclusive. The Shop is all about volume. I'm not gonna sit here and complain about getting some of my Reserves for ridiculous bottom line pricing. I just understand now that what I'm getting is NOT exclusive nor is it high end and I'm cool with that. When I finally decide to shell out the iron for high end it won't be from the "I". Nothing wrong with having a little diversity in the collection.
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A great thread to read. I have no anwsers but a couple thoughts. I have many Invictas, their quality is outstanding which keep folks buying another. We hear Reserves are special, handmade by the top ten percent of watchmakers, Swiss movements and eyepopping looks. Than why do they go down in price? Could it be that many are produced, than new models are created, so let's get rid of the old stuff and the price of the older models is lower, than when introduced. I have an Ocean Ghost meteorite which came out a batch at a time, if memory serves, to a limit of 1000 pieces. Why not make the 1000 limited editions pieces and sell them all at one time. I paid a couple dollars more,before the the release of the last batches. I think it is fantastic to get a great price on a timepiece. That will always have to be by the nature of selling on the tv. I think Invicta needs to go through one series of Reserves, sell them all out, to protect the buyer from losing money. I think the name can continue in a simular look but notas areserve under that name. Just myopinions on the subject. ....Bob
A great thread to read. I have no anwsers but a couple thoughts. I have many Invictas, their quality is outstanding which keep folks buying another. We hear Reserves are special, handmade by the top ten percent of watchmakers, Swiss movements and eyepopping looks. Than why do they go down in price? Could it be that many are produced, than new models are created, so let's get rid of the old stuff and the price of the older models is lower, than when introduced. I have an Ocean Ghost meteorite which came out a batch at a time, if memory serves, to a limit of 1000 pieces. Why not make the 1000 limited editions pieces and sell them all at one time. I paid a couple dollars more,before the the release of the last batches. I think it is fantastic to get a great price on a timepiece. That will always have to be by the nature of selling on the tv. I think Invicta needs to go through one series of Reserves, sell them all out, to protect the buyer from losing money. I think the name can continue in a simular look but notas areserve under that name. Just myopinions on the subject. ....Bob
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Well for me I dont care id the line hits a $99.00 or its $1500.00. If the watch rocks my boat I will buy it, I dont give a &^%* what the watch is worth 6 months, 12 months or 5 yrs from when I buy it. I dont buy them to make money, I dont buy them to break even, I buy them too wear them and if I cut them loose I sell them for what I can get for them and move on. So I am one of those guys who just does not care if I loose money on a watch. I loose money every day on my car, I loose money every day over the last 2 yrs on my properties, I loose money on the very TV that I watch, the computer I am typing on, Hell I loose money every day on my Pay check I am receiving. Now I guess some will say well if you buy a Breitling you wouldnt loose money, BS thats crap. Loosing money on hobbies is a way of life. So for what it is worth I dont give a &*%# about the direction of a company that I have no control of period. If they keep building watches I like I WILL BUY THEM!!!
Well for me I dont care id the line hits a $99.00 or its $1500.00. If the watch rocks my boat I will buy it, I dont give a &^%* what the watch is worth 6 months, 12 months or 5 yrs from when I buy it. I dont buy them to make money, I dont buy them to break even, I buy them too wear them and if I cut them loose I sell them for what I can get for them and move on. So I am one of those guys who just does not care if I loose money on a watch. I loose money every day on my car, I loose money every day over the last 2 yrs on my properties, I loose money on the very TV that I watch, the computer I am typing on, Hell I loose money every day on my Pay check I am receiving. Now I guess some will say well if you buy a Breitling you wouldnt loose money, BS thats crap. Loosing money on hobbies is a way of life. So for what it is worth I dont give a &*%# about the direction of a company that I have no control of period. If they keep building watches I like I WILL BUY THEM!!!
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There is nothing special about the higher end lines anymore because the price drops so fast. Once the initial sale or launch and pricing is over the massive discounts begin on every single model it seems, which lowers the value of the watch for everyone. If you are buying these and don't care about the value and more importantly just don't care about how much money you literally waste when the watch you purchased less then a year before has dropped to 50-75% lower then you paid for it, then fine.
But that does not happen with every other brand out there. Many brands RETAIN their value, or close to it. Some even go UP in value That is a watch you can pass down to children and there is a value to it.
Invicta COULD DO THIS by keeping the prices higher on certain models or lines and NOT dropping the prices a few months later or ever. They could do this, but choose not to, and that is the problem.
they could keep a higher model (Like the SAS for example) at higher prices and just never drop the price. The Oris I have been looking at was around $1100 a year ago. It is still around $1100 today. It will be worth $1100 next year. Same for other watches I have been looking at buying. The price has never dropped, and you know what, neither has the value.
Again, I want to stress. I like Invicta watches and continue to buy them, but would love to see a higher end model that I could buy and KNOW it would retain it's value and not be offered at 50%, or 60% or 70% off within a few months....
There is nothing special about the higher end lines anymore because the price drops so fast. Once the initial sale or launch and pricing is over the massive discounts begin on every single model it seems, which lowers the value of the watch for everyone. If you are buying these and don't care about the value and more importantly just don't care about how much money you literally waste when the watch you purchased less then a year before has dropped to 50-75% lower then you paid for it, then fine.
But that does not happen with every other brand out there. Many brands RETAIN their value, or close to it. Some even go UP in value That is a watch you can pass down to children and there is a value to it.
Invicta COULD DO THIS by keeping the prices higher on certain models or lines and NOT dropping the prices a few months later or ever. They could do this, but choose not to, and that is the problem.
they could keep a higher model (Like the SAS for example) at higher prices and just never drop the price. The Oris I have been looking at was around $1100 a year ago. It is still around $1100 today. It will be worth $1100 next year. Same for other watches I have been looking at buying. The price has never dropped, and you know what, neither has the value.
Again, I want to stress. I like Invicta watches and continue to buy them, but would love to see a higher end model that I could buy and KNOW it would retain it's value and not be offered at 50%, or 60% or 70% off within a few months....
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TVDinner wrote:
TVDinner wrote:
Nothing wrong with you view TV, I just dont care, nor do I think they care either. I personally think that Eyal has a bigger set of Ballz then you could even imagine. I bet he buys 50K of movements at a time, knowing that he might have a hell of a time pushing them all, but some how he seems to keep them going. Personally I hate the fact that Oris, Breitling and many other brands rip people off every day, by making upwards of 200 and 300 percent margins, where Invicta doesnt do that. So I understand your train of thought, I just dont agree with it!There is nothing special about the higher end lines anymore because the price drops so fast. Once the initial sale or launch and pricing is over the massive discounts begin on every single model it seems, which lowers the value of the watch for everyone. If you are buying these and don't care about the value and more importantly just don't care about how much money you literally waste when the watch you purchased less then a year before has dropped to 50-75% lower then you paid for it, then fine.
But that does not happen with every other brand out there. Many brands RETAIN their value, or close to it. Some even go UP in value That is a watch you can pass down to children and there is a value to it.
Invicta COULD DO THIS by keeping the prices higher on certain models or lines and NOT dropping the prices a few months later or ever. They could do this, but choose not to, and that is the problem.
they could keep a higher model (Like the SAS for example) at higher prices and just never drop the price. The Oris I have been looking at was around $1100 a year ago. It is still around $1100 today. It will be worth $1100 next year. Same for other watches I have been looking at buying. The price has never dropped, and you know what, neither has the value.
Again, I want to stress. I like Invicta watches and continue to buy them, but would love to see a higher end model that I could buy and KNOW it would retain it's value and not be offered at 50%, or 60% or 70% off within a few months....
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Ron - I think you know I understand sales. It is what I do and I 100% understand buying volume parts low and then making a lot of money on them down the line.
I am not talking specifically about any of the mass produced lines. those are fine and I love Eyal for putting those out at great prices for very nice watches.
I am specifically wondering why they cant take 1 or 2 lines and keep the prices high. Never drop, never waiver from that high price. never sell to other retailers at low prices so they can drop the prices. Just keep the prices consistent and high and magically they could have models that are just like the Omega's, Brietlings and others. They could specifically make really really nice special watches that actually do cost $1000 (or whatever) and always remain at that price. their value is not destroyed by endless discounting.
We agree about the company in general. They make good quality watches at pretty affordable rates. just please don't sell me a special "Reserve" or Upper Level line of watch only to drop it down BELOW or equal to the new Pro Diver prices 3-6 months later. That means your watches are worth NOTHING.
"Costume Jewelry for Men" is a phrase I have heard thrown around a lot lately for Invicta and I hate that, but it is hard to argue with it sometimes.
Ron - I think you know I understand sales. It is what I do and I 100% understand buying volume parts low and then making a lot of money on them down the line.
I am not talking specifically about any of the mass produced lines. those are fine and I love Eyal for putting those out at great prices for very nice watches.
I am specifically wondering why they cant take 1 or 2 lines and keep the prices high. Never drop, never waiver from that high price. never sell to other retailers at low prices so they can drop the prices. Just keep the prices consistent and high and magically they could have models that are just like the Omega's, Brietlings and others. They could specifically make really really nice special watches that actually do cost $1000 (or whatever) and always remain at that price. their value is not destroyed by endless discounting.
We agree about the company in general. They make good quality watches at pretty affordable rates. just please don't sell me a special "Reserve" or Upper Level line of watch only to drop it down BELOW or equal to the new Pro Diver prices 3-6 months later. That means your watches are worth NOTHING.
"Costume Jewelry for Men" is a phrase I have heard thrown around a lot lately for Invicta and I hate that, but it is hard to argue with it sometimes.
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TVDinner wrote:
I cant speak for Eyal I can only speculate, but how I see it is he hates them as much if not more then I do. They being Breitling, Oris, Rolex etc etc etc. I dont think he want his company too be anythink like them. He has a market share that seems to be working. Maybe he will change direction but at this time WHY?
I understand your concerns with what others are saying, me I dont care what they say. Like I said, if the watch looks good too me I will own it.
TVDinner wrote:
I here yaRon - I think you know I understand sales. It is what I do and I 100% understand buying volume parts low and then making a lot of money on them down the line.
I am not talking specifically about any of the mass produced lines. those are fine and I love Eyal for putting those out at great prices for very nice watches.
I am specifically wondering why they cant take 1 or 2 lines and keep the prices high. Never drop, never waiver from that high price. never sell to other retailers at low prices so they can drop the prices. Just keep the prices consistent and high and magically they could have models that are just like the Omega's, Brietlings and others. They could specifically make really really nice special watches that actually do cost $1000 (or whatever) and always remain at that price. their value is not destroyed by endless discounting.
We agree about the company in general. They make good quality watches at pretty affordable rates. just please don't sell me a special "Reserve" or Upper Level line of watch only to drop it down BELOW or equal to the new Pro Diver prices 3-6 months later. That means your watches are worth NOTHING.
"Costume Jewelry for Men" is a phrase I have heard thrown around a lot lately for Invicta and I hate that, but it is hard to argue with it sometimes.
I cant speak for Eyal I can only speculate, but how I see it is he hates them as much if not more then I do. They being Breitling, Oris, Rolex etc etc etc. I dont think he want his company too be anythink like them. He has a market share that seems to be working. Maybe he will change direction but at this time WHY?
I understand your concerns with what others are saying, me I dont care what they say. Like I said, if the watch looks good too me I will own it.
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I think that Invicta will do whatever they need to do to make money. If they are making more money on mass produced cheaper watches then that is the direction they will keep heading.
I believe that they will continue to build up the hype about a watch and then sell mass quantities of it only to start dropping the price over the months following it's release. I think it has worked well for them so far so I see no reason why they would change that strategy.
I like the Invictas that I own, but I'm almost certain that I will never purchase another one. I really have no interest in their watches anymore. I think they have cool designs, but there are so many other brands out there that I like much more. These other brands aren't necessarily more expensive they just appeal to me more.
I think Invicta has gone down a path that will be hard for them to return from. I think Eyal is a business man and really could care less as long as his watches are selling and he is bringing in the money.
I don't hate Invicta at all. In fact I think their marketing strategy has been very successful and as I said earlier I don't see them making any changes in the way they do business in the future. Now if they start seeing their sells tumble they may have to re-think their strategy.
Invicta is a business and they will do whatever they need to do to say in business. I think many of us hope to see changes, but I really don't foresee any. They are a "TV Watch" and they have been type casted so to speak. Their market is mainly through ShopNBC. Now I know they sell to some retail companies, but most people only know about Invicta because of ShopNBC.
I think that Invicta will do whatever they need to do to make money. If they are making more money on mass produced cheaper watches then that is the direction they will keep heading.
I believe that they will continue to build up the hype about a watch and then sell mass quantities of it only to start dropping the price over the months following it's release. I think it has worked well for them so far so I see no reason why they would change that strategy.
I like the Invictas that I own, but I'm almost certain that I will never purchase another one. I really have no interest in their watches anymore. I think they have cool designs, but there are so many other brands out there that I like much more. These other brands aren't necessarily more expensive they just appeal to me more.
I think Invicta has gone down a path that will be hard for them to return from. I think Eyal is a business man and really could care less as long as his watches are selling and he is bringing in the money.
I don't hate Invicta at all. In fact I think their marketing strategy has been very successful and as I said earlier I don't see them making any changes in the way they do business in the future. Now if they start seeing their sells tumble they may have to re-think their strategy.
Invicta is a business and they will do whatever they need to do to say in business. I think many of us hope to see changes, but I really don't foresee any. They are a "TV Watch" and they have been type casted so to speak. Their market is mainly through ShopNBC. Now I know they sell to some retail companies, but most people only know about Invicta because of ShopNBC.
imported post
I thought more about this last night James; even if Invicta were to "change their ways" and come out with another "high end line" would it at this point change my overall opion of them, no. It would not make any difference if they created a "Select" line because it's not the word Select that will lose credibility; it's the word Invicta that has already lost it. No matter what name you assign to Invicta the damage is done.
On a different note, look at the hordes of enthusiasts that have voiced their displeasure with the company. Has this changed anything, no. Numerous complaints posted everyday about their pricing, service, QC, etc...any changes, no. In other words, do they care, no. It is so painfully clear that their is no pride in what they do.....losing perceived value from valued customers like us is not an issue. Clearly for everyone one of us they lose they gain hundreds more. As long as the money keeps pouring in they will do what they do. Shame on us if we have not learned this by now and exercised our rights as consumers and just walk away.
Unfortunately the "Reserve" pieces that we own are a wash from a money or value perspective.
I thought more about this last night James; even if Invicta were to "change their ways" and come out with another "high end line" would it at this point change my overall opion of them, no. It would not make any difference if they created a "Select" line because it's not the word Select that will lose credibility; it's the word Invicta that has already lost it. No matter what name you assign to Invicta the damage is done.
On a different note, look at the hordes of enthusiasts that have voiced their displeasure with the company. Has this changed anything, no. Numerous complaints posted everyday about their pricing, service, QC, etc...any changes, no. In other words, do they care, no. It is so painfully clear that their is no pride in what they do.....losing perceived value from valued customers like us is not an issue. Clearly for everyone one of us they lose they gain hundreds more. As long as the money keeps pouring in they will do what they do. Shame on us if we have not learned this by now and exercised our rights as consumers and just walk away.
Unfortunately the "Reserve" pieces that we own are a wash from a money or value perspective.
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CJ
I completely agree. I guess I will live with my current Invicta watches because I personally like them. I do, there is no way to deny that I do like the look, feel, and overall presentation of the watches.
I will also fully understand that they have no real long term value and no current sale or trade value for any other brand of value. "Costume jewelry for men" rings true again.
Finally, the higher end Citizen Eco Drive that my father purchased a few months back is still the exact same price at the local jewelry store. You still can not find it anywhere online for much less then he paid. I guess he is a whole lot smarter then me.
CJ
I completely agree. I guess I will live with my current Invicta watches because I personally like them. I do, there is no way to deny that I do like the look, feel, and overall presentation of the watches.
I will also fully understand that they have no real long term value and no current sale or trade value for any other brand of value. "Costume jewelry for men" rings true again.
Finally, the higher end Citizen Eco Drive that my father purchased a few months back is still the exact same price at the local jewelry store. You still can not find it anywhere online for much less then he paid. I guess he is a whole lot smarter then me.
imported post
Unfortunately you are right my friend.
I also dig many of the Invicta pieces that I own and will not part with them. But my perception of their products and business practices is forever tainted and again has caused me to venture elsewhere. I understand in the grand scheme of things I am not a loss to Invicta but my own piece of mind, devoid of disappointment, is far more important.
CJ
TVDinner wrote:
Unfortunately you are right my friend.
I also dig many of the Invicta pieces that I own and will not part with them. But my perception of their products and business practices is forever tainted and again has caused me to venture elsewhere. I understand in the grand scheme of things I am not a loss to Invicta but my own piece of mind, devoid of disappointment, is far more important.
CJ
TVDinner wrote:
CJ
I completely agree. I guess I will live with my current Invicta watches because I personally like them. I do, there is no way to deny that I do like the look, feel, and overall presentation of the watches.
I will also fully understand that they have no real long term value and no current sale or trade value for any other brand of value. "Costume jewelry for men" rings true again.
Finally, the higher end Citizen Eco Drive that my father purchased a few months back is still the exact same price at the local jewelry store. You still can not find it anywhere online for much less then he paid. I guess he is a whole lot smarter then me.
imported post
Like others, I have been thinking about this more and more since you started the topic...and have come to more conclusions which may or may not relate completely to your question.
To those that have been around and listened to and remember the things stated by Eyal and Jim, the Reserve designation has become...well...funny. I think what Eyal probably likes the most is the newer Invicta collectors (the ones who join the big forum and have 5,000 posts in a month and have to have one UPS truck just for their weekly purchases) who constantly, despite all the evidence put forth, will continue to scream "I dont care if they say its Swiss Made and its not and I paid 800 dollars for a hundred dollar watch...IT LOOKS COOL!!!". That makes Eyal smile.
Its a sad state when people use the argument...I dont care if on thursday the new Reserve was on a daily site for 199 and on monday, I paid 899...I didnt buy it for resale. Thats all well and good, but since when have we lowered ourselves to almost being thrilled that we were given the shaft by some guy who laughs all the way to the bank...and cant so much as have the common courtesy to even have a decent CS department when our 899 dollar watch craps out in 10 minutes. But the customer does not care and will defend those practices until doomsday...because the watch looks cool.
Reserve is "All Swiss Made" and made by "The top 10% of watchmakers in OUR employee"...maybe.
Amazon has "Exclusive" versions of the Venom...not stamped "Swiss Made", but simply "Swiss". It has been established that "Swiss" cannot be trademarked in the US..."Swiss Made" can and has, but not just Swiss. And the "Swiss" version on Amazon is about half the price of the "Swiss Made". But WAIT, THERES MORE...Jim said Swiss and Swiss Made are the same (and it is IF you are a member of the Federation, but Michael says Invicta is not since its just "a good old boys club")...Michael compared those who question it to seeing the black helicopters, and the Invicta loyal either say "Jim said it so its true" or a few have even to posters to "Shut Up".
Does the fact that Jim, Michael and Eyal said it make it so? Remember the first release of the S1 touring with SAPPHIRE CRYSTAL!!! Only when questioned and the issue was pushed heavily did it come to light that they were mineral. Flame Fusion...if it is FF it is stamped on the case back...there have been a few instances where watches were said to have FF...whoops again. There is the "Swiss Mov't" which is meaningless and says so on the Swiss Federation site. Movement must be spelled out. Anyways, there is the now famous photo of the "Swiss Mov't" Invicta with the caseback removed and guess what...the movement is CHINA!!! There is always the Seiko movement that Invicta and Seiko developed together...well, not really...but Invicta did have their name on the rotor.
Their "Swiss Factory"...when really really pushed on the issue, the defense is to have Michael come out and say on the other forum...There will always be those out to get Invicta...we have facilities all over the world. Really?? But do you actually have the "Swiss Factory"...silence.
Look, as a former soldier in the Invicta customer army, I know what its like. I also know what I would like to see. Invicta should simply be up front. Have a certain number of models and production targets that can be reached with good QC...have a couple of folks be able to answer the phones...and maybe even stock basic parts like SCREWS!!! 3 months for a push pin is ridiculous.
Seiko, Citizen, Casio, Pulsar, Bulova and plenty of others hide nothing. There are plenty of Seiko Monsters made in Malaysia...and says so right on the dial. Other Seikos and Citizens are Japanese and say so. Casio has factories (actually owned by them) and makes watches in Japan, China, Korea and Thailand and says so right on the case backs. And all those companies have realistic retail prices and street prices are realistic and stable. Why? Because people know for a fact what they are buying up front...no slight-of-hand to make you think its something its not.
I for one would love to see Invicta back on track as they do have some very cool designs. Kristie is still lusting after an Excursion and I would love to get her one...if I simply trusted that its what it says it is, would be backed up by the company in my lifetime if there was a problem and had the same quality that Invicta used to have. My older Pro Divers as I have said many times are simply great watches. The Miyota driven Grand Divers...steal of the decade...the original version of the Akula, WOW...Invicta has potential to be what they used to be, and you hate to see that tossed away just to make a quick pile of money...I suspect they made plenty the way they used to do things.
Like others, I have been thinking about this more and more since you started the topic...and have come to more conclusions which may or may not relate completely to your question.
To those that have been around and listened to and remember the things stated by Eyal and Jim, the Reserve designation has become...well...funny. I think what Eyal probably likes the most is the newer Invicta collectors (the ones who join the big forum and have 5,000 posts in a month and have to have one UPS truck just for their weekly purchases) who constantly, despite all the evidence put forth, will continue to scream "I dont care if they say its Swiss Made and its not and I paid 800 dollars for a hundred dollar watch...IT LOOKS COOL!!!". That makes Eyal smile.
Its a sad state when people use the argument...I dont care if on thursday the new Reserve was on a daily site for 199 and on monday, I paid 899...I didnt buy it for resale. Thats all well and good, but since when have we lowered ourselves to almost being thrilled that we were given the shaft by some guy who laughs all the way to the bank...and cant so much as have the common courtesy to even have a decent CS department when our 899 dollar watch craps out in 10 minutes. But the customer does not care and will defend those practices until doomsday...because the watch looks cool.
Reserve is "All Swiss Made" and made by "The top 10% of watchmakers in OUR employee"...maybe.
Amazon has "Exclusive" versions of the Venom...not stamped "Swiss Made", but simply "Swiss". It has been established that "Swiss" cannot be trademarked in the US..."Swiss Made" can and has, but not just Swiss. And the "Swiss" version on Amazon is about half the price of the "Swiss Made". But WAIT, THERES MORE...Jim said Swiss and Swiss Made are the same (and it is IF you are a member of the Federation, but Michael says Invicta is not since its just "a good old boys club")...Michael compared those who question it to seeing the black helicopters, and the Invicta loyal either say "Jim said it so its true" or a few have even to posters to "Shut Up".
Does the fact that Jim, Michael and Eyal said it make it so? Remember the first release of the S1 touring with SAPPHIRE CRYSTAL!!! Only when questioned and the issue was pushed heavily did it come to light that they were mineral. Flame Fusion...if it is FF it is stamped on the case back...there have been a few instances where watches were said to have FF...whoops again. There is the "Swiss Mov't" which is meaningless and says so on the Swiss Federation site. Movement must be spelled out. Anyways, there is the now famous photo of the "Swiss Mov't" Invicta with the caseback removed and guess what...the movement is CHINA!!! There is always the Seiko movement that Invicta and Seiko developed together...well, not really...but Invicta did have their name on the rotor.
Their "Swiss Factory"...when really really pushed on the issue, the defense is to have Michael come out and say on the other forum...There will always be those out to get Invicta...we have facilities all over the world. Really?? But do you actually have the "Swiss Factory"...silence.
Look, as a former soldier in the Invicta customer army, I know what its like. I also know what I would like to see. Invicta should simply be up front. Have a certain number of models and production targets that can be reached with good QC...have a couple of folks be able to answer the phones...and maybe even stock basic parts like SCREWS!!! 3 months for a push pin is ridiculous.
Seiko, Citizen, Casio, Pulsar, Bulova and plenty of others hide nothing. There are plenty of Seiko Monsters made in Malaysia...and says so right on the dial. Other Seikos and Citizens are Japanese and say so. Casio has factories (actually owned by them) and makes watches in Japan, China, Korea and Thailand and says so right on the case backs. And all those companies have realistic retail prices and street prices are realistic and stable. Why? Because people know for a fact what they are buying up front...no slight-of-hand to make you think its something its not.
I for one would love to see Invicta back on track as they do have some very cool designs. Kristie is still lusting after an Excursion and I would love to get her one...if I simply trusted that its what it says it is, would be backed up by the company in my lifetime if there was a problem and had the same quality that Invicta used to have. My older Pro Divers as I have said many times are simply great watches. The Miyota driven Grand Divers...steal of the decade...the original version of the Akula, WOW...Invicta has potential to be what they used to be, and you hate to see that tossed away just to make a quick pile of money...I suspect they made plenty the way they used to do things.
imported post
Well put WC..........thanks, good read!!:c:c
CJ
watchcollector1968 wrote:
Well put WC..........thanks, good read!!:c:c
CJ
watchcollector1968 wrote:
Like others, I have been thinking about this more and more since you started the topic...and have come to more conclusions which may or may not relate completely to your question.
To those that have been around and listened to and remember the things stated by Eyal and Jim, the Reserve designation has become...well...funny. I think what Eyal probably likes the most is the newer Invicta collectors (the ones who join the big forum and have 5,000 posts in a month and have to have one UPS truck just for their weekly purchases) who constantly, despite all the evidence put forth, will continue to scream "I dont care if they say its Swiss Made and its not and I paid 800 dollars for a hundred dollar watch...IT LOOKS COOL!!!". That makes Eyal smile.
Its a sad state when people use the argument...I dont care if on thursday the new Reserve was on a daily site for 199 and on monday, I paid 899...I didnt buy it for resale. Thats all well and good, but since when have we lowered ourselves to almost being thrilled that we were given the shaft by some guy who laughs all the way to the bank...and cant so much as have the common courtesy to even have a decent CS department when our 899 dollar watch craps out in 10 minutes. But the customer does not care and will defend those practices until doomsday...because the watch looks cool.
Reserve is "All Swiss Made" and made by "The top 10% of watchmakers in OUR employee"...maybe.
Amazon has "Exclusive" versions of the Venom...not stamped "Swiss Made", but simply "Swiss". It has been established that "Swiss" cannot be trademarked in the US..."Swiss Made" can and has, but not just Swiss. And the "Swiss" version on Amazon is about half the price of the "Swiss Made". But WAIT, THERES MORE...Jim said Swiss and Swiss Made are the same (and it is IF you are a member of the Federation, but Michael says Invicta is not since its just "a good old boys club")...Michael compared those who question it to seeing the black helicopters, and the Invicta loyal either say "Jim said it so its true" or a few have even to posters to "Shut Up".
Does the fact that Jim, Michael and Eyal said it make it so? Remember the first release of the S1 touring with SAPPHIRE CRYSTAL!!! Only when questioned and the issue was pushed heavily did it come to light that they were mineral. Flame Fusion...if it is FF it is stamped on the case back...there have been a few instances where watches were said to have FF...whoops again. There is the "Swiss Mov't" which is meaningless and says so on the Swiss Federation site. Movement must be spelled out. Anyways, there is the now famous photo of the "Swiss Mov't" Invicta with the caseback removed and guess what...the movement is CHINA!!! There is always the Seiko movement that Invicta and Seiko developed together...well, not really...but Invicta did have their name on the rotor.
Their "Swiss Factory"...when really really pushed on the issue, the defense is to have Michael come out and say on the other forum...There will always be those out to get Invicta...we have facilities all over the world. Really?? But do you actually have the "Swiss Factory"...silence.
Look, as a former soldier in the Invicta customer army, I know what its like. I also know what I would like to see. Invicta should simply be up front. Have a certain number of models and production targets that can be reached with good QC...have a couple of folks be able to answer the phones...and maybe even stock basic parts like SCREWS!!! 3 months for a push pin is ridiculous.
Seiko, Citizen, Casio, Pulsar, Bulova and plenty of others hide nothing. There are plenty of Seiko Monsters made in Malaysia...and says so right on the dial. Other Seikos and Citizens are Japanese and say so. Casio has factories (actually owned by them) and makes watches in Japan, China, Korea and Thailand and says so right on the case backs. And all those companies have realistic retail prices and street prices are realistic and stable. Why? Because people know for a fact what they are buying up front...no slight-of-hand to make you think its something its not.
I for one would love to see Invicta back on track as they do have some very cool designs. Kristie is still lusting after an Excursion and I would love to get her one...if I simply trusted that its what it says it is, would be backed up by the company in my lifetime if there was a problem and had the same quality that Invicta used to have. My older Pro Divers as I have said many times are simply great watches. The Miyota driven Grand Divers...steal of the decade...the original version of the Akula, WOW...Invicta has potential to be what they used to be, and you hate to see that tossed away just to make a quick pile of money...I suspect they made plenty the way they used to do things.
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