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Here is some very good information to read.

Tattoo Chef found this info and it is very educational for any person who is interested in watches. Enjoy


Source - http://www.17jewel.com/two.html


Two Movements Compared the ETA 2824-2 and the Miyota 8215 Automatic [/font]

The Miyota 8215 and ETA 2824-2 are two Automatic Date movements that have been around for years. Both are fine watch movements that are dependable and accurate. Both are used by several watch makers world wide.
While it is not publicized, most watch manufactures these days don’t make their own movements. Swiss manufacturers were hit hard in the mid Seventy’s with the advent of cheap disposable quartz movements. Many makers when out of business, most of those who survived now employ "ebauche" (spec) movements, manufactured by ETA ,Valjoux and a few others.[/font]




The Swiss ETA 2824-2 25 Jewel Automatic movement is used in the Invicta 9937 a great value at $299.99
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The Swiss ETA 2824-2 movement is used in several makes including Auguste Reymond, Cartier, Dugena, Eterna, Festina, Fortis, Gaddy's, Kienzle, Maurice Lacroix, MHR, Motochron, Oris, Schwarz-Etienne, TAG-Heuer, Tissot to name a few. [/font]



Almost identical Invicta 8926 with a Miyota 8215 21 Jewel Automatic a great daily wear value at $104.99

The Miyota 8215 is used in such brands as Camel, Citizen, Dugena, Festina and Invicta. Miyota is owned by Citizen in Japan.
The two movements, while similar, have differences that set them apart, both in functionality and application.


Cost - The 25 Jewel ETA 2824-2 Automatic Movement can be purchased from Ofrei (A large watch materials house) for about $78. It is employed in watches costing thousands including the Rolex Tudor Submariner. The 21 Jewel Miyota 8215 costs about $37 and is used in watches priced from $100 and up.

BPH - Beats per hour. ETA 2824-2 28,800 BPH or 8 beats per second (4 Hz) vs 21,600 or 6 beats per second (3 Hz) for the Miyota 8215. Most mechanical movements run at 18,000 BPH or 5 beats per second (2.5 Hz). Both movements have higher than average BPH a plus.
Accuracy is generally better on movements with higher BPH. The TimeZone has an excellent article on the subject.
Higher end watches employ movements with high beats per second. An easy way to judge movement quality without taking it out of the case is to watch how smoothly the second hand runs. Higher quality movements display a smoother running second hand.


Finish - The finish on the ETA is smoother and more polished than the Miyota. The ETA is available with gold plating as used by the Invica 9937. This does not affect the performance of the movement. Many and many could argue who’s going to look at the movement anyway? It’s is an esthetic issue.

Jewels – The ETA has 25 Jewels and the Miyota has 21 Jewels. Jewels, typically synthetic rubis are used in watch movements, not to add to their value, but to reduce friction and wear on moving parts. Lower end watches may have only 7 to 15 jewels. The standard for quality watches is 17 jewels or more. There is an upper end to the number of jewels necessary, typically, anything over 25 jewels for these types of automatic movements are just for decoration.

Power Reserve - Power reserve is the number of hours a movement will run when fully wound. Most mainsprings will power a watch for 30 hours or more. The ETA has about a 40 hour power reserve, the Miyota has a 45 hour reserve.

Winding Mechanism – Both watches employ a winding rotor that winds the mainspring with the movement of the wrist. The Miyota employs a ball bearing unidirectional winding rotor. The ETA utilizes a ball bearing rotor that winds in both directions. The ETA takes less wrist movement to wind the mainspring.

Second Hand Drive – The Miyota employs an indirect second hand drive and the ETA uses the newer direct second hand drive. The second hand on the Miyota may appear to stop for a moment with various wrist movements, but this does not affect accuracy.

Shock Resistance – The ETA uses Incabloc shock resistance, a method developed in the 1930’s to allow the end jewels on the balance staff to move or ‘float’ so the balance is not damaged when the watch is dropped or bumped. The Miyota uses its own proprietary shock resistance on the balance (Parashock).

Hacking – The ETA’s second hand stops when the stem is pulled for setting the time. A feature called hacking. Handy for synchronizing watches like in the war movies, or setting the watch with a standard clock like WWV. The second hand does not stop on the Miyota 8215 when setting the time.

Date set – Bot the ETA 2824-2 and the Miyota have the quick set date function.

Conclusion - Both movements have a track record of accuracy, dependability, and longevity. They are employed by several low, medium and high end makes. The ETA 2824-2 in my opinion is the better of the two. It is Swiss made and has been in service since 1982. With 25 verses 21 jewels, higher beats per minute, omni-directional winding mechanisim, and hacking feature, the 2824-2 comes out ahead.

Based on price, the Miyota 8215 by Citizen is a great value and would be a good choice in an everyday watch or weekend beater.
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Doug Clark
17jewel.com
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Good article. Abviously the ETA movement is preferred but I gotta tell ya, the 8215 is a great and solid movement that works beautifully. I have a couple of 8215's and they work perfectly and I have no problems with them.
 

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TVDINNER,
Nice comparison on those two great mechanical movements. I own many of both and of course the ETA is my favorite, but sheraothho is right about the 8215, takes a lickin and keeps on tickin!

Old Neil
 

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I own many 8215's and most run way too fast. My ETA 2824-2 does not run much more then +2-3 seconds a day. I do believe the 8215's are work horses, but they certainly don't sweep as clean as the 2824-2. I also don't like the fact that the 8215 can't be hacked like the 2824-2.
 

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Thanks guys, great read; I would agree with the writer and also feel that the Miyota is a great value and a tremendous workhorse. I have had and still have many Miyota watches and I have never had a single issue.
It would interesting to add the SW200 to the comparison

CJ.
 

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I have many of both. The Swiss Eta is definately a smoother movement, but for the price, the Miyota is serious bang for the buck and as stated, very reliable.
 

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Seattle wrote:
Thanks guys, great read; I would agree with the writer and also feel that the Miyota is a great value and a tremendous workhorse. I have had and still have many Miyota watches and I have never had a single issue.
It would interesting to add the SW200 to the comparison

CJ.
I have an SW-200 that is too fast and one that is too slow. I still love the movement and the watches they are in. It just goes to show you that it's not the movement, but rather how well calibrated it is.
 

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I like the Miyota 8215 and have that movement in several watches. It's a great, inexpensive movement.

However, my ETA 2824-2 movements have always run smoother and more accurately (same with my Sellita SW200).

I do think it depends on the Brand that the movements are found. Some are much better regulated or use higher grade components.
 

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I'll add my two cents as I own all three movements mentioned.

Miyota builds an exceptional VALUE movement. It isn't luxury, it isn't flashy or smooth but it tell time and with some regulation can SOMETIMES keep COSC standards of accuracy. That said, on the whole, it will NOT be as accurate as either Swiss movement, it does NOT hack and it operates in a jerky, almost quartz-like fashion. Great BUDGET movement.

Next up the scale is the SW200. It will be more accurate (generally), smoother and better-finished than the Miyota, is hackable and is much more easily (or better yet, more often) regulated to achieve COSC certification. That said it is NOT as smooth as the 2824-2 and (IMO) is NOT as good. Why? Sellita uses parts that are inferior in finish to the ETA. It is a 2824-2 copy and to some degree (but not 100%) has some interchangeability of parts. Perhaps manufacturers like Oris that use this movement in a KIT form (ebauche) refinish it well enough to overcome the finish issue, I have no experience there. I have sw200s that are more standard, unfinished and unregulated as they come from sellita.

Which brings us to the 2824-2 which is the benchmark three-hand movement. This is the one all others get compared to. It has remained the STAPLE three hand Swiss automatic for decades and many, many high-end watch companies use it or an upgraded version of it in their watches. Want an automatic with a buttery-smooth sweep? If you do not have Rolex or even Omega money, pick up a Hamilton, Accutron or even Croton, Swiss Legend or Invicta with this movement. Compare it side by side with a watch powered by a Sellita or Miyota. I bet you'll see the difference. I certainly do.

David
 

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I have only had 2 problems in my life with actual movements and both were SW200's. One stopped all together and the other lost the screw and bearings that hold the rotor together. On the other hand, I have at least 20 other SW200's that work great!:b

CJ

Watchguru58 wrote:
Seattle wrote:
Thanks guys, great read; I would agree with the writer and also feel that the Miyota is a great value and a tremendous workhorse. I have had and still have many Miyota watches and I have never had a single issue.
It would interesting to add the SW200 to the comparison

CJ.
I have an SW-200 that is too fast and one that is too slow. I still love the movement and the watches they are in. It just goes to show you that it's not the movement, but rather how well calibrated it is.
 

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I also have all three movements and they fuction as said its a good article and great input from everyone.this is good information for all collectors and especially new ones
 

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Thank you for the info. Thanks for the time you put into that. It really helps me learn more.:c
 
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