Watch Freeks banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
442 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Below is the article and my additions are outside of the article quotation. I make no judgment about the brand which is why it is "You Judge".

The Truth About The Tockr Brand

http://tockr.net/

I do not know for sure how to start or even write what I have on my mind regarding the one particular watch.

Well, two watches, to be exact, but my first intention was to buy watch for my brother in law, who is long time pilot, for his birthday.

So, I didn’t want to buy just any pilot style watch, like most of people will do. Nope, I want something different and because his connections to US Air Companies I thought it will be nice to purchase a watch from US Texas based company Tockr and was not sure which one from these two models in C-47 series; Radial or Radial Wing, And there where my confuse started. I always do my research regarding buying watches, because myself is some kind of collector and watch enthusiast with limited knowledge and I like to learn, so I check a more than few web sites with reviews and descriptions about this two watches.

https://www.watchuseek.com/tockr-watches-set-take-off/

https://www.revolution.watch/talking-tockr-new-texas-based-brand-creates-swiss-watches-inspired-aviation/

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/tockr-c-47-wing-watch-giveaway/

https://robbreport.com/style/watch-collector/tockr-creates-high-end-aviation-watches-texas-2768135/

https://robbreport.com/style/watch-collector/tockr-creates-high-end-aviation-watches-texas-2768135/

so there are no lack of articles about C-47 series of watches from Tockr. There are even bold statements that these watches (dial and case) are produced by Swiss company TEC Ebauches SA
Website Screen Shots








…and most of us know about Arnaud Faivre, who is running ETC Ebauches SA at the moment (For those who does not know that name here is a few links:

http://en.worldtempus.com/article/manufacture-royale-arnaud-faivre-ceo-14470.html

http://en.worldtempus.com/article/industry-news/people-and-interviews/manufacture-royale-interview-with-the-founder-arnaud-faivre-14946.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacture_royale

After all of that, I thought, YUP, that is a perfect gift watch. So I wanted to check movement as final research, regarding my purchase and I find that is made by Swiss company, Leschot SA Enginering which is absolutely respectable company and was just confirmation of “Swiss Made” inscription on dial.

Ok, all elements are there and finally now I only needed to chose between “Radial” and “Radial Wing” model from Tockr C-47 series and I check for as many pictures and links as I could in one afternoon. I usually use for that kind of research “reverse image search” because is easier to find similar pics. But, strange enough, when I was talking to my sister over the phone about watch, she was by mistake typed www.tockr.co in her browser and was redirected to site of http://signstimemovements.com/shop/

(which I didn’t know then) and she ask me about some “Amir” watch she liked on website. What “Amir” watch, was a question in my head at that moment, but then we start talking about “round” or “square” (my sister is not in the watches, so I was keeping things simple .) and then she asked me about some “Stovard” watch… ok… now something was wrong. There are no “Amir” watch or “Stovard” watch on tockr.com website so I asked her to send me a link…BOOOM… and there is a same looking watch… NO, TWO same looking watches as C-47 series from Tockr, but this two was branded as “BOLT” and price was WOW significantly smaller than from Tockr. So, what else to do but spent more hours (even days) in new diligence research about BOLT watches (http://signstimemovements.com/shop/) and there are some very interesting info.

First, there is a note under description of both Bolt watches (Razorback & Airfoil) which say: “Note: These models are not hommage or Fake Tockr watches. Made of original overstock parts with original movements.”

Second, they have own movement laboratory/factory in La-Chaux-de-Fonds which is very interesting, because Leschot SA have their movement production in same Swiss city and as the used movement, they are both using same Cal.726A8 or Cal.726/A11.

That was a key for my inner explorer to woke up in full and find more facts, real facts and I started sending emails to all of them, questioning origins of C-47 watches.

I could now write all steps and emails I wrote and how did NOT receive any official answer from Tockr or TEC Ebauches SA, but did receive few very interesting info and leads for deeper investigation from Leschot SA and SignsTimeMovements, so I will write just my findings here in short and ask you, yes you, to check and ask and send emails as I did to find the truth behind this two watches.

First of all, these watches have nothing to do with “Swiss Made” and that is not a bad thing but it is just a lie.
Second, TEC Ebauches SA and Arnaud Faivre have nothing with producing a case for these two watches because they just produce “radial engine” dial for SignsTimeMovements, so that is a lie too.
Third, both “brands” are using same, identical movements from Leschot SA Enginering, Cal.726/A08 (three hander) or Cal.726/A11 (three hander with point date complication).
Fourth, SignsTimeMovements have direct connection (cooperation) with Leschot SA Enginering and Tockr does not.
Fifth, but not last, Tockr ordered this two watches (not only this two!) from SignsTimeMovements who designed and manufactured them from scratch, including case, handset and they modified Leschot Cal.726 with different hand height because dial high radial engine design and put them together in ordered amount but there was a kind of conflict, so they are still in ownership of http://signstimemovements.com/ At least, I see that like that.

But I was proven so many times to be wrong, so I am asking you, all watch enthusiast to help and check all this info, because something is really smelly in this story.

In the end, I will buy watch from http://signstimemovements.com/ because it is actually “first original” watch and if anything goes wrong, they are the guys who actually made and put together (assemble) this watch; case and hands in Asian factories, dial in Switzerland and with almost “in house” Swiss movement, so who is more legible to fix any eventual problem or do regular maintenance of the movement.?

You can check all my writings very easy and with few emails, asking for official reply from Tockr, TEC Ebauches SA, Leschot SA Enginering and SignsTimeMovements. [attachment=0]Truth about tocker watches.pdf[/attachment]
http://signstimemovements.com/product/bolt-razorback/



https://tockr.com/products/c-47



https://tockr.com/products/c-47/c47/748606390295




http://tockr.net/comment-section/



http://signstimemovements.com/product/bolt-airfoil/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,296 Posts
Well, to me you've made it obvious that Tockr is a fraud.
But signstimemovements didn't exactly keep their word as far as exclusivity of design or confidentiality goes.
So, I'd say both companies are a POS. Neither will be getting any of my money.
Thanks for the interesting read.
So who's next. You never did give us an answer on whether or not Doxa is legit. I look forward to your findings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
442 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Well, to me you've made it obvious that Tockr is a fraud.
But signstimemovements didn't exactly keep their word as far as exclusivity of design or confidentiality goes.
So, I'd say both companies are a POS. Neither will be getting any of my money.
Thanks for the interesting read.
So who's next. You never did give us an answer on whether or not Doxa is legit. I look forward to your findings.

I make no judgments about them. There is evidence to support both sides of the story. Time will tell.

As to doxa, https://watchlords.com/viewtopic.php?f=202&t=7798

https://watchlords.com/viewtopic.php?f=202&t=32291&p=436178&hilit=Doxa+forum+watch#p436178

The original died in the late 70s due to the quartz revolution. Jennys bought name in late 80s and made watches for the eastern european market. In 2002 or so the retro dive versions were brought back, made in asia by walca east. Final assembly perhaps done in the land of cheese but no factory is known to exist in switzerland belonging to doxa.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,296 Posts
This watch was already brought up previously. Reading through whoever's story this is anyway. I was intrigued by the area in which he speaks to his sister about the watches she referred to as "Amir" and "Stovard". We never see nor hear of these watches again after that. Was she viewing the site in another language ???
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,663 Posts
Wow, Alain, some excellent detective work. :thumb:

Never heard of Signstime until today, but have to say their
watches look very cool to me, and wow, are a lot less than
the similar models that Tockr makes.

What's so interesting is how we often will see watches that
look like other watches when it comes to big brands like
Rolex, or Omega. But you even see it with small brands
like with Tockr, and Signstime. Guess it's just the way of
the watch industry.

I know even lately, I have been into vintage watches, and
will see so many brands that seemed to use similar. Or
basically identical cases, and dial set-ups, and styles. It
really is something sir.

Thanks very much for the insight, and post ! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
442 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
This watch was already brought up previously. Reading through whoever's story this is anyway. I was intrigued by the area in which he speaks to his sister about the watches she referred to as "Amir" and "Stovard". We never see nor hear of these watches again after that. Was she viewing the site in another language ???

You will find both brands at the link below.



http://signstimemovements.com/shop/


Site seems to be in English and I believe at one time there may have been a re-direct to that site but I would be guessing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,296 Posts
You will find both brands at the link below.



http://signstimemovements.com/shop/


Site seems to be in English and I believe at one time there may have been a re-direct to that site but I would be guessing.
I didn't see or hear anymore about them because they weren't Tockr watches.
It was then that he noticed the Bolts. Which could be a copyright infringement suit for Invicta. :nod:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
442 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I didn't see or hear anymore about them because they weren't Tockr watches.
It was then that he noticed the Bolts. Which could be a copyright infringement suit for Invicta. :nod:



No doubt
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top