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VW group is junk, here I will never agree. Plethora of problems, durability is not their speciality.

Porsche Cayenne and VW Toureg shared the same engine. Audi Q8 and Lamborghini Urus do the same. I hate mixing of cheap with ultra special.
VW Group is not junk. I don't know where you are getting your VWs from, maybe India gets them from the Chinese production facilities?

Yes, there is platform sharing in VW AG, but that is to be expected. People wanted SUVs from all the brands, and in all sizes, so it would be financial suicide to engineer a different car for each slot for each brand. Hence platform sharing. This is nothing new though, it has been around for 70 years already. Some of the current Minis are actually BMW X2 or X3s..

But this is where you, like me, may differ from many people: we seek purity, and do not relish being sold a barge full of marketing blah blah.

That being said, I had a 2001 Audi A3 1.9 tdi that did 420'000km. Never a problem (at that age, the engine started to smoke, so it had to go, but that is understandable).

Currently I have an Audi A6 3.0 tdi Quattro. Excellent car. 230'000km and still runs like new.

I still have a Seat Ibiza Cupra from 1997. Excellent car. The 2.0 litre is an excellent motor, the car a joy to drive. Have only ever done services, tyres, brake discs and the CV joints once.

Granted, the VW AG 2.0 diesel is not a great motor, but the 2.7 and 3.0 are flawless.

More recent petrol offerings from VW AG I am not too interested in. A small, highly stressed turbo motor will never last as long as a larger normally aspirated engine. It's like with watches, the higher the beat rate, the more quickly it wears out parts and needs to be serviced.

Bmw does the same with their 7 series and RR electronics and a few cheap plastic bits. But, yes, BMW is more customer centric, than MB. I've never had problems at their dealership. Due to personal reasons and heritage I've decided to stick to MB.
I used to love BMW, my first car was a BMW 2002, then a 2002tii, then an E30 318is... But it seems that after Daimler Chrysler disintegrated the american MBAs who ruined MB's quality all got hired by BMW, and their quality when southwards very fast.

Now, recent BMWs with their plastic valve guides, THAT is a bad decision that costs owners a ton of money to fix (usually just after the warranty expires).

And let us not forget their not putting the high-end bearing in the crankshafts of the M3s destined for the US market, reason being that "Americans cannot drive past 75 MPH". But when you take your M3 to a track and the big end blows up... Was that a good decision? Save a few euros per car by installing sub-par bearings?

Or then there is BMW's Mini, which were actually just Peugeot motors and subframes, delivered from France and installed in the body shells in the UK. Yes, that is a truly "British" car.

MB I will never forgive for having merged with the Chrysler and then tanking their quality. An old colleague had his E320 in the garage more often than on the road, and it cost him a small fortune to keep running. The electric seats broke (CHF 4'000 each), the headlight internal mechanisms died, had to replace it for a total of CHF 1'500. And then it started rusting. So no, MB is not high quality anymore, it is trading on a reputation built from the 1950s to the mid 1990s, and which is now no longer true.

MB Sonder Klasse and Maybach are far superior to any offering commercially available. Once we get to the C class, MB cares, until then it's just gimmicks and a brand badge.
Agreed. But this is true with just about any brand.

In terms of MB, the only one I really want is an old 240 D from the 70s or even a 600 Grosser... Or maybe a 500 SEC from back in the 80s. Back when cars were cars and not mobile entertainment systems. I do not need my arse massaged by a leather seat...


Bentley are extremely exclusive, and yet always seen at the independent garages for strange malfunctions that Bentley themselves can't fix.

Jaguar and Land Rover are also going in a strange direction, where Tata motors, the parent organization is releasing cheaper look alike versions built on the same chassis under the Tata tag line.

These days, Lexus is a strong contender, they don't relase any garbage. All their line up is well up to date and drive as good as any competition from BMW and MB. I dislike BMW for long term ownership costs of severe maintenance, MB is superior in this aspect of ownership. But lexus is not only cheaper to run, it hardly has anything that ever runs 10K bills for a single service session.

Overall, you are as usual correct to ask for exclusivity for premium goods, why else would you buy their flagship offering? If I were to buy a grand Seiko, my colleagues would think it's a 500 usd watch. It's due to seiko's low end offering that leads to this common perception. So, yes, this watch by Swatch, will eventually hurt Omega's brand value, especially the Speedmaster. Very same problem I have with current generation junk MB low end offerings. From A class sedan until the Sonder Klasse they all look alike, people think we are in a stretched A class.
I have to disagree about Lexus.. After all, they did make the worst car in the world (according to old Top Gear), the SC 430. ;-)

Seriously, a look at honestjohn.co.uk's reviews show the flaws in Lexus.

I will agree that Japanese manufactures usually make incredibly reliable cars and can sometimes come out with superlative automobiles, the Toyota hardbody pickup for instance. It cannot be killed. But not all Japanese brands are like that, especially since more and more manufacturing is exported to China.

But, to me, the fact that a car is "flawless" does not leave it endearing to the heart. I loved my BMW 2002s and 318is as well as the 1992 Mini Cooper I had.. Yes, they had their problems, but that was part of the fun. It's usually the flaws people find endearing, and not the flawlessness. It's like my brother and I still talk / laugh about when my german shepherd went a bit nuts and destroyed the wiper / headlight stalks on my Honda Concerto, until I had it repaired, it was impossible to start the car without first turning the wipers and headlights on. Not to mention the time I lost a wheel while driving my 2002 (not my fault, I bought a set of alloy rims and the garage used the wheel bolts from the steel wheels, which are not compatible with the alloy wheels).. I still look back at that with fondness.
 

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Watch Freek
Omega Day Date, Raymond Weil(s), Seiko(s) and micro brands.
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526 Posts
My God, a $20 dollar Quartz movement for $3,350.00 dollars, insanity... :rolleyes:
Only one bidder will end up with it. But yes a great way to start a fundraiser for the real Speedmaster. I feel stupid, that seller beat us all to the free Speedmaster funds race.
 

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Watch Freek
Omega Day Date, Raymond Weil(s), Seiko(s) and micro brands.
Joined
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526 Posts
VW Group is not junk. I don't know where you are getting your VWs from, maybe India gets them from the Chinese production facilities?

Yes, there is platform sharing in VW AG, but that is to be expected. People wanted SUVs from all the brands, and in all sizes, so it would be financial suicide to engineer a different car for each slot for each brand. Hence platform sharing. This is nothing new though, it has been around for 70 years already. Some of the current Minis are actually BMW X2 or X3s..

But this is where you, like me, may differ from many people: we seek purity, and do not relish being sold a barge full of marketing blah blah.

That being said, I had a 2001 Audi A3 1.9 tdi that did 420'000km. Never a problem (at that age, the engine started to smoke, so it had to go, but that is understandable).

Currently I have an Audi A6 3.0 tdi Quattro. Excellent car. 230'000km and still runs like new.

I still have a Seat Ibiza Cupra from 1997. Excellent car. The 2.0 litre is an excellent motor, the car a joy to drive. Have only ever done services, tyres, brake discs and the CV joints once.

Granted, the VW AG 2.0 diesel is not a great motor, but the 2.7 and 3.0 are flawless.

More recent petrol offerings from VW AG I am not too interested in. A small, highly stressed turbo motor will never last as long as a larger normally aspirated engine. It's like with watches, the higher the beat rate, the more quickly it wears out parts and needs to be serviced.



I used to love BMW, my first car was a BMW 2002, then a 2002tii, then an E30 318is... But it seems that after Daimler Chrysler disintegrated the american MBAs who ruined MB's quality all got hired by BMW, and their quality when southwards very fast.

Now, recent BMWs with their plastic valve guides, THAT is a bad decision that costs owners a ton of money to fix (usually just after the warranty expires).

And let us not forget their not putting the high-end bearing in the crankshafts of the M3s destined for the US market, reason being that "Americans cannot drive past 75 MPH". But when you take your M3 to a track and the big end blows up... Was that a good decision? Save a few euros per car by installing sub-par bearings?

Or then there is BMW's Mini, which were actually just Peugeot motors and subframes, delivered from France and installed in the body shells in the UK. Yes, that is a truly "British" car.

MB I will never forgive for having merged with the Chrysler and then tanking their quality. An old colleague had his E320 in the garage more often than on the road, and it cost him a small fortune to keep running. The electric seats broke (CHF 4'000 each), the headlight internal mechanisms died, had to replace it for a total of CHF 1'500. And then it started rusting. So no, MB is not high quality anymore, it is trading on a reputation built from the 1950s to the mid 1990s, and which is now no longer true.



Agreed. But this is true with just about any brand.

In terms of MB, the only one I really want is an old 240 D from the 70s or even a 600 Grosser... Or maybe a 500 SEC from back in the 80s. Back when cars were cars and not mobile entertainment systems. I do not need my arse massaged by a leather seat...




I have to disagree about Lexus.. After all, they did make the worst car in the world (according to old Top Gear), the SC 430. ;-)

Seriously, a look at honestjohn.co.uk's reviews show the flaws in Lexus.

I will agree that Japanese manufactures usually make incredibly reliable cars and can sometimes come out with superlative automobiles, the Toyota hardbody pickup for instance. It cannot be killed. But not all Japanese brands are like that, especially since more and more manufacturing is exported to China.

But, to me, the fact that a car is "flawless" does not leave it endearing to the heart. I loved my BMW 2002s and 318is as well as the 1992 Mini Cooper I had.. Yes, they had their problems, but that was part of the fun. It's usually the flaws people find endearing, and not the flawlessness. It's like my brother and I still talk / laugh about when my german shepherd went a bit nuts and destroyed the wiper / headlight stalks on my Honda Concerto, until I had it repaired, it was impossible to start the car without first turning the wipers and headlights on. Not to mention the time I lost a wheel while driving my 2002 (not my fault, I bought a set of alloy rims and the garage used the wheel bolts from the steel wheels, which are not compatible with the alloy wheels).. I still look back at that with fondness.
God willing you're still here in one piece after the bolt mishap. In terms of Lexus, I only consider LS and LC, and I have listed them in 2 posts. At MB only the Sonder Klasse, w220 was garbage, W140, W221, W222 are God willing bullet proof cars. A part from minor sensors, headlight condensation, and airmatic upkeep it's the most beautiful list of sedans to drive in peak hour traffic to court daily. BMW 7 series front seats are not as well designed as MB, they focus more on the rear. I don't like to give the Sonder Klasse to the driver, they are very agressive on the roads here. I've always got all the available options installed until the refrigerator, but never cared for the massage function, it's a gimmick and a distraction (may work for most, not for a boring punter like me). I've had a stage 1 tune done on our diesel W221 facelift (2013), taking the torque to 700 nM. With fuel efficiency of 7.1L/100KM on the highway, and in peak traffic it gets 15.4L/100KM on short runs. Combined at non peak hours in the city it averages to 10L/100KM. The new W223, which is a downgrade for the Indian market, since it lacks what we had in the W221 and W222, they removed front seat ventilation cooling, the magic dual front screen, no option to add a refrigerator, and killed the new 4wheel steering. The car looks identical to the A class sedan, and the car drives stiffer now like an E class AMG version. The steering wheel, they lowered the size to make it sporty, but why would anyone want a sporty steering in a non amg Sonder Klasse? Gone are the wood trims and wood panels, and wood finished steering wheels. The buttons in the w223 are strange to control the seat contours, very hard to slide, sunroof has touch sliders! Only good thing going for it were in the combined city conditions I saw FE of 17KM/1L. And the interior was empty apart from a Tesla like screen, everything is touch, even some of the button on the steering wheel. The steering has more buttons than my xbox one controller. Very distracting sedan. Here they are pushing the Maybach for the options, missed out in the Sonder by the Indian market. Now that's entrapment, in my opinion.
W140, W221(FE/SE), and W222 are phenomenal sedans. But you have to keep an independent garage on retainer to get the fixes applied when necessary, or even the slightest glitch and these sedans go in to limp mode. When they do, ESP, ABS and all other electronic support mechanism goes out for a toss. Apart from that it feels like a yatch sailing on the streets, especially the Long wheel base version, I drive daily.

Coming to Audi, 2009, Q7 V8 petrol, after 96K KM, had everything going wrong for it. At this point oil was leaking everywhere. 1L per 100KM or less. Tech tried everything, but it just didn't want to, the damn thing always had to be removed from the body to access the timing chain, which Wass facing the windshield behind the engine, stra ge design. Always a sheer pleasure to depart 1000 to 2000 usd in labour to pull out that engine and change the solenoids, or get any timings chain tensioner or the whole timing assembly replace, which were very prone to go bad. 3 times this case happened. Then there was the Bose sound system which fried up the 1 bose amp in the trunk, which killed the main screen. Then there is the button to release the glove compartment, on the dashboard, due to age that had gone numb, so at times it won't open (10 years and a button fails? People have 50 year old cars with functional glove boxes). Sunroof motors went out, water was leaking due to the dealership never cleaning the drain lines. Front and rear lights were always glitching, found out it was due to non OEM solutions, but it was recommended by the Audi sales force. Airmatic got stuck on the regular midway settings, so no more going higher on bad roads, apparently the dealership couldn't figure out the problem. Utter disappointment, spent more than what the car was worth, when let go got worth the Carbon ceramic brakes, which were 7-8K USD to replace, luckily they weren't fragile like rest of the suv.

320D (first gen), was in love after the first drive, but 3 years later the mechanical components started to fail, and left us stranded. Timing chain components failed, not replaced under warranty, I was blamed for harsh acceleration. Coolant was leaking, it was blamed on the engine bay overheating since I keep the engine under pressure. Gave up, never looked back to acquire anything from this lackluster group.

Never owned a Lexus, but drove them when borrowed from others. Had multiple Grand Cherokees, before and after the MB-Chrysler tie up.
 

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God willing you're still here in one piece after the bolt mishap. In terms of Lexus, I only consider LS and LC, and I have listed them in 2 posts. At MB only the Sonder Klasse, w220 was garbage, W140, W221, W222 are God willing bullet proof cars. A part from minor sensors, headlight condensation, and airmatic upkeep it's the most beautiful list of sedans to drive in peak hour traffic to court daily. BMW 7 series front seats are not as well designed as MB, they focus more on the rear. I don't like to give the Sonder Klasse to the driver, they are very agressive on the roads here. I've always got all the available options installed until the refrigerator, but never cared for the massage function, it's a gimmick and a distraction (may work for most, not for a boring punter like me). I've had a stage 1 tune done on our diesel W221 facelift (2013), taking the torque to 700 nM. With fuel efficiency of 7.1L/100KM on the highway, and in peak traffic it gets 15.4L/100KM on short runs. Combined at non peak hours in the city it averages to 10L/100KM. The new W223, which is a downgrade for the Indian market, since it lacks what we had in the W221 and W222, they removed front seat ventilation cooling, the magic dual front screen, no option to add a refrigerator, and killed the new 4wheel steering. The car looks identical to the A class sedan, and the car drives stiffer now like an E class AMG version. The steering wheel, they lowered the size to make it sporty, but why would anyone want a sporty steering in a non amg Sonder Klasse? Gone are the wood trims and wood panels, and wood finished steering wheels. The buttons in the w223 are strange to control the seat contours, very hard to slide, sunroof has touch sliders! Only good thing going for it were in the combined city conditions I saw FE of 17KM/1L. And the interior was empty apart from a Tesla like screen, everything is touch, even some of the button on the steering wheel. The steering has more buttons than my xbox one controller. Very distracting sedan. Here they are pushing the Maybach for the options, missed out in the Sonder by the Indian market. Now that's entrapment, in my opinion.
W140, W221(FE/SE), and W222 are phenomenal sedans. But you have to keep an independent garage on retainer to get the fixes applied when necessary, or even the slightest glitch and these sedans go in to limp mode. When they do, ESP, ABS and all other electronic support mechanism goes out for a toss. Apart from that it feels like a yatch sailing on the streets, especially the Long wheel base version, I drive daily.

Coming to Audi, 2009, Q7 V8 petrol, after 96K KM, had everything going wrong for it. At this point oil was leaking everywhere. 1L per 100KM or less. Tech tried everything, but it just didn't want to, the damn thing always had to be removed from the body to access the timing chain, which Wass facing the windshield behind the engine, stra ge design. Always a sheer pleasure to depart 1000 to 2000 usd in labour to pull out that engine and change the solenoids, or get any timings chain tensioner or the whole timing assembly replace, which were very prone to go bad. 3 times this case happened. Then there was the Bose sound system which fried up the 1 bose amp in the trunk, which killed the main screen. Then there is the button to release the glove compartment, on the dashboard, due to age that had gone numb, so at times it won't open (10 years and a button fails? People have 50 year old cars with functional glove boxes). Sunroof motors went out, water was leaking due to the dealership never cleaning the drain lines. Front and rear lights were always glitching, found out it was due to non OEM solutions, but it was recommended by the Audi sales force. Airmatic got stuck on the regular midway settings, so no more going higher on bad roads, apparently the dealership couldn't figure out the problem. Utter disappointment, spent more than what the car was worth, when let go got worth the Carbon ceramic brakes, which were 7-8K USD to replace, luckily they weren't fragile like rest of the suv.

320D (first gen), was in love after the first drive, but 3 years later the mechanical components started to fail, and left us stranded. Timing chain components failed, not replaced under warranty, I was blamed for harsh acceleration. Coolant was leaking, it was blamed on the engine bay overheating since I keep the engine under pressure. Gave up, never looked back to acquire anything from this lackluster group.

Never owned a Lexus, but drove them when borrowed from others. Had multiple Grand Cherokees, before and after the MB-Chrysler tie up.
Ooph.. sorry about your nightmare with the Q7. That is indeed disappointing.

My father has a E34 with an automatic transmission. In 30 years it has packed-up on him twice, going into limp mode (max speed of around 50kph), and always a long way from home.

Many years ago I learned that more tech is not necessarily a good thing. In fact, less technology in a car is better (back when Subaru first started with their black box engine management systems in the 1990s that could not be opened and cost a fortune to replace). Hence I did my research when buying my A6, it has the 3.0 diesel (bulletproof motor), manual seats, no sunroof, a normal sport suspension (not the dynamic adjustable air system), a "manual" A/C system, heated leather seats (but no heated steering wheel) and the bog standard radio/navigation/information system. The fewer things that can go wrong, the better.
 

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Watch Freek
Omega Day Date, Raymond Weil(s), Seiko(s) and micro brands.
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Ooph.. sorry about your nightmare with the Q7. That is indeed disappointing.

My father has a E34 with an automatic transmission. In 30 years it has packed-up on him twice, going into limp mode (max speed of around 50kph), and always a long way from home.

Many years ago I learned that more tech is not necessarily a good thing. In fact, less technology in a car is better (back when Subaru first started with their black box engine management systems in the 1990s that could not be opened and cost a fortune to replace). Hence I did my research when buying my A6, it has the 3.0 diesel (bulletproof motor), manual seats, no sunroof, a normal sport suspension (not the dynamic adjustable air system), a "manual" A/C system, heated leather seats (but no heated steering wheel) and the bog standard radio/navigation/information system. The fewer things that can go wrong, the better.
You are correct Sir FBPB. But then again even our Hondas are no better in this department. Excessive plastic/fiber usage, I hate the plastic intake manifolds and weak rubber hoses all around the car engine bay as well as a weak AC compressor and P/S pump. Had 6 P/S pumps replaced on our crv, some design flaw. 2 AC compressors due to something called black death. Yet these cars cost less to maintain than a set of tires on our MBs. And the diesel 3 series, had the crank shaft fail twice, even though the last one was replaced under warranty since I sued them. Indie said they never installed it correctly, I could not prove that, had to let go.

I'm glad you're alive and well after the nut/bolt incident of alloy to steel rims confusion.

That was my very reason to hate Audi and BMW. They became project cars rather than daily drivers. As did our Honda cars, but atleast they are cheap to upkeep. 500 usd with parts and labor to get the all new AC system installed in a Honda sedan. Tires 350 usd, set of 5.

You are indeed right about the 3.0 tdi, it's the same one used on the Cayenne. I did consider it once as an used option, but the Q7 nightmare prevented me from walking forward. I've always liked porches, but VW groups unreliability from my friends cars like their passats, and jettas, catching fire due to some assembly line issues and then service dealers using untrained techs who screwed up enough VW and Skoda cars here. I didn't have the courage to revisit anything from VW. I've heard worst stories of other bmw owners, one of yours as well. Just horrible what your father had to go through.

*Anyway, I have diverted off the charts from the topic at hand.

To conclude, none of the cheap cars offered from MB are falling apart, almost everyone in my circle has a MB in their lot. And these cars get abused and serviced on time. MB has become a symbol of success here, almost anyone who can afford one wants to attain it. Even tough there are cheaper options available, I don't see anyone stopping from adding a high end MB. I'm not comfortable entirely, but then again what are my options? So I always visit the MB dealership for any new vehicles.
Back to the point, swatch moonwatch is not going to hurt omega, it will infact get people like me to appreciate the real deal, Omega Speedmaster. The whole reason I went to see the speedy was this low priced swatch moonwatch. You all shared numerous omega posts here, but never was I excited. I've just had a de ville, which I sold, and held on to a vintage day date I inherited. But now God willing I've got the taste of a Speedmaster and I need one.
 

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Aspiring Expert
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There's one born every minute it would seem
I just don't get it? it's basically a $260 dollar plastic, quartz, toy watch made to look like an expensive iconic Omega watch AND there are no limits to how many they are going to make! just wait a while and you'll be able to buy one for an MSRP of $260?!? :unsure:

This is Beany Babies all over again! :rolleyes:

A fool and his money are easily parted... ;)
 

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Watch Freek
Omega Day Date, Raymond Weil(s), Seiko(s) and micro brands.
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I just don't get it? it's basically a $260 dollar plastic, quartz, toy watch made to look like an expensive iconic Omega watch AND there are no limits to how many they are going to make! just wait a while and you'll be able to buy one for an MSRP of $260?!? :unsure:

This is Beany Babies all over again! :rolleyes:

A fool and his money are easily parted... ;)
It's not a fool who is acquiring this. Some people want to get these first hand to show off to others, and 8K to 10K means nothing to them. It's an achievement in their Circle. But a person who doesn't have the funds and squeezes them for this play toy is certainly a fool.
 

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I just don't get it? it's basically a $260 dollar plastic, quartz, toy watch made to look like an expensive iconic Omega watch AND there are no limits to how many they are going to make! just wait a while and you'll be able to buy one for an MSRP of $260?!? :unsure:

This is Beany Babies all over again! :rolleyes:

A fool and his money are easily parted... ;)
A Swolex ?
 

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Super Moderator
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It's not a fool who is acquiring this. Some people want to get these first hand to show off to others, and 8K to 10K means nothing to them. It's an achievement in their Circle. But a person who doesn't have the funds and squeezes them for this play toy is certainly a fool.
100% correct. I know some people like this, who define themselves by what they can buy, rather than what they can make / do. It's kind of sad, really.
 

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Watch Freek
Omega Day Date, Raymond Weil(s), Seiko(s) and micro brands.
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100% correct. I know some people like this, who define themselves by what they can buy, rather than what they can make / do. It's kind of sad, really.
Indeed, Sir. I wouldn't be 'sad', about it. This is another demographic of the populace. Have to get along. I've repaired and destroyed several items, yet no one ever cared. People only care about our possessions.
 

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Aspiring Expert
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It's not a fool who is acquiring this. Some people want to get these first hand to show off to others, and 8K to 10K means nothing to them. It's an achievement in their Circle. But a person who doesn't have the funds and squeezes them for this play toy is certainly a fool.
No matter how much money you had at the time, people who bought into the Beany Baby craze are widely acknowledged today to have been fools for throwing money at it and have nothing to show for it but a bunch of worthless stuffed toys...

At least the people buying into this craze will have something that tells the time when it all settles down and people come to their senses. ;)

 

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Watch Freek
Omega Day Date, Raymond Weil(s), Seiko(s) and micro brands.
Joined
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No matter how much money you had at the time, people who bought into the Beany Baby craze are widely acknowledged today to have been fools for throwing money at it and have nothing to show for it but a bunch of worthless stuffed toys...

At least the people buying into this craze will have something that tells the time when it all settles down and people come to their senses. ;)

Regardless these people didn't invest billions or their full net worth in to this craze. If they did, they weren't rich to begin with.
 

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Regardless these people didn't invest billions or their full net worth in to this craze. If they did, they weren't rich to begin with.
"invest billions or their full net worth" well, someone is sliding down a slippery slope to make a point... :p
 
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