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First of all, let me say that I don't want to 'put a bee in anyone's bonnet' ...
...
... over the 'issue' of Homage (aka 'Tribute') VS. Replica (aka 'Fake') watches! ...
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Nevertheless, before I go on (and on), let me FURTHER stipulate that, IMHO, 'Fake' Watches, per se, (generally) have another "Haute Horology" name emblazoned on their dials and/or case backs and make every attempt to 'coattail' off these very expensive designs.

And, FWIW, having researched 'rep' watches for years (and - HUGE GASP! - even purchased a rather nice/upscale 'rep' myself), I think they're now mostly 'all show and no go!'
... and they're NOT anything close to the REAL thing; i.e., Panny's "Marina Militare" ...
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On the other hand, I ALSO think that some (not ALL) watches that take a "Haute Horology" Design and, in the inimitable words of Larry M. w/Stuhrling, "make it their own!", are therefore, IMHO, definitely NOT fakes, ...
... but, rather, "Homage" and/or "Tributes" to those upscale designs! ...
... and at the pinnacle of that "Heap of Haute Horology" is the Panerai PAM00127 "1950" (aka 'Fiddy') ...
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And, what's MOST-INTERESTING about the 'Homage Genre' is the fact that, after ALL this time, ...
... one 'homage' watch STILL stands out among ALL the 'others'; i.e., ... the Rock-X-Watch "MM20" ...
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For better or worse, even tho' I think the Rock-X-Watch 'MM20' IS a TRUE Homage, the courts in Japan didn't and, in a lawsuit launched by Panerai, Mr. 'Ken Trading', the 'purveyor' of MM20's in Tokyo, was issued a 'cease & desist' injunction from EVER making anything like the 'MM20' again!

I further understand that, after all the lawyers 'left the bldg.', Mr. 'Trading' consigned several hundred of his 'leftover' MM20's to Orient Trading in Thailand. I've even found the e-mail addy for this outfit (from a website in the Philippines), but, since it's been explicitly stated that Orient staff in Thailand do NOT speak/read ANY English, ...
... I'm fairly certain that any message I might send them would be "lost in the medium!"
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BTW, as I've stated in other posts in here, I've heard that 'someone in the Orient' more or less 'inherited' all of Ken Trading's MM20 'tool 'n dies' and is making the best 'rep of a homage' currently available; i.e., ...
... the "James123Chen" RXW ...
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Anyway, I continue to research MM20's (REAL ones! - not the "fakes of the homage MM20" that are sold on e-Bay, 'et al') and, occasionally, I make an offer to someone who has a GENUINE MM20 in pristine condition!
... BTW, I MUST say that, as far as I know, all the 'fake' RXW's currently being sold on the web ...
... are the ONLY 'fakes of a homage/tribute' designs I personally have EVER seen! ...
... I guess that alone speaks to the desirability of the REAL RXW! - but I digress! ... :madd

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Having said ALL that, I'd like to pass along to the readers in here a RETORT to a post made on a 'way-distant forum' where someone attacked RXW as nothing more than a 'fake!' ...

RE: Ken Trading NOT Selling Fakes

I am a personal business partner with Ken Trading. Back in the 1990's I started doing business with them. By the way Ken is only his cover name. I don't need to divulge his real name, but he is probably the most knowledgeable guy I know about watches. He taught me a lot about Rolex,and he helped me make some serious money from selling used Rolex.

He actually asked me to help him research the idea of making watches using ETA movements. His thinking was simple. He knows about quality watches, and he wanted to make them more affordable to the average guy. He is a true watch enthusiast and a very nice guy as well. Over the years he has made many contributions to watch magazines in Japan, and the magazine editors greatly respect his knowledge.

To make a long story short, he never intended to make fakes. He hates fakes, but a good look-a-like is another thing.

Now in my research I will blew you a way, and I think I will reveal a secret which is the real reason that Panerai and other snobs like Rolex went after him. A pity, because Ken Trading made Rolex models in Japan popular through his marketing and his articles in watch magazines. When Ken spoke the Japanese watch collectors listened. If he said buy this model, then they did by the thousands. He made the Explorer I popular. I made a fortune selling these in Japan. He was my source of knowledge, He told me to stock up on Explorer I and I did. The price increase by 4 times within 6 months of his articles . I even believe Rolex read his articles for ideas of what to produce.

Anyway, buddy, you really don't know what you are talking about. You are another parrot of the media. In my research I found that a Panerai has an ETA movement, cases made in China. We estimated the production cost of some models and we figured nothing would cost more that $500 and yet they make you pay $4,000.

You tell me who is the villian and who is the hero?

I have dealt with Rolex for years, and I think they are representative of the snobbish attitudes these brand watch owners display. (By the way Swatch now won't sell ETA outside its long time partners, probably from pressure, for these guys who fear the Chinese watch outdoing them)

They are getting rich off people's ignorance. For example, Swiss law only requires 50% of parts to be made in Switzerland in order to have "made in Swiss" stamped on the dial. Where do you think the other 50 % comes from? I will give you a hint. I have seen many "fakes' over the years, and most fakes were quite obvious.

However, in recent years, they are as good as the real thing. Why? Technology transfer. Watch parts made in China are now in Swiss watches.

I had a very good friend, whose family has been in the Rolex Service business for over 50 years. He confessed to me that to get a 100% all Swiss parts watch, you need to go back 15 years or so, otherwise there is a high chance that some parts are made in China!

So dear friend, you can see who the real criminals are. I think that, instead of going on the defense, somebody should sue these companies for false advertising and investigate their fake "Swiss-Made" watches.

I would never buy a new watch from any of these guys. They are as phoney as the fakes out of China. The only difference is that they have an ETA movement or a Swiss movement, and some fancy lawyers. Otherwise, the rest of their claims are a lie.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Brian
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Now, I don't know about any of youZe guyZ, ...
... but I find all this kinda interesting! :eek:
... anyone else care to express their opinion on any or all of this? - anyone? ...

 

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Been discussed many times before. If a fake watch puts another company's name on it - like a fake Rolex that actually puts "Rolex" on the dial and clearly is pretending to be the real thing - that is wrong, illegal, and bad in general.
If a company makes a watch that is similar to another watch model from another watch company, but puts their own name on it, then it is a "homage" to the original. Right or wrong it is currently acceptable.
 

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It's just like saying made in the USA. China is the now big dog on the block making and buying up everything they can get their hands on. Just like the company I work for, a Chinese investment company just bought up 60% of our shares and will be buliding our stuff in China, but most of our stuff has been bulit there already. I guess it just depends, you can get crappy stuff coming out of China and you can also get great stuff coming out of there as well. And Ron I thnk for my MM that was the best 128 dollars that I spent.
 

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RipitRon wrote:
All i know is i really want the MM 60mm but i am scared of what I might get! Nothing pisses me off like wasting $200.00.
Hey Ron. Have a few MM's and they work just as good as anything else around for the money........... maybe better. They do have a return policy, so if you get it and don't like it just send'er back.
 

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RipitRon wrote:
All i know is i really want the MM 60mm but i am scared of what I might get! Nothing pisses me off like wasting $200.00.
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Ron, so far I've found ONLY 2 'tributes' to the Ø=60mm "Egiziano" ...
... designed by Panerai for the Egyptian Navy in 1956 ...
... that, IMHO, are a 'cut above' the standard Chinese 'clones' available on-line! ...
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... and the first of 'em is the ($1100) RWC (Retrospect Watch Co.) version ...
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... and the other, of course, is the "more realistic" (but less $$$) version by "Davidsen" (aka "James123Chen") ...
... that, at 52mm (w/o CG) is slightly smaller, but STILL uses a GENuine ETA-6497! ...
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FWIW, IMHO, you couldn't lose with either of these two (higher-quality) "Egi's" ! ...

 

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Ron

http://www.dajiwatch.com/Product_Show.asp?ArticleID=221 -

MD-019A 60MM Marina Militare sandwich Dial Orange No. Mechanical Watch
Retail Price:$220.00 Wholesale Price:

mechanical (hand winding) movement

17-Jewels hand winding Asian 6497 movement

Brushed 316L stainless steel case and back

case diameter 60 mm without crown

height 20 mm,

sandwich Dial with Orange No.

luminous hands

scratch proof mineral glass

genuine leather strap




------------------------

http://www.dajiwatch.com/Product_Show.asp?ArticleID=241

PH-156B 50mm Parnis Sandwich Dial Big Face Full chronograph Watch
Retail Price:$87.00 Wholesale Price:

Japan Quartz movement working chronograph

Full functional chronograph

Running Minute at: 6:00

Running Hour at:3:00

Pusher button at: 8:00 Starts/stops chronograph

Pusher button at:10:00 resets chronograph

sub-dial for seconds at 12 o'clock

Brushed Solid 316L Stainless Steel case and back

black dial with white numbers

case diameter 50 mm without crown

height 16 mm

band width 26 mm

scratch proof mineral glass

genuine leather strap
 
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