How do we spot a fake PANERAI? - Watch Freeks


Like Tree36Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-18-2013, 12:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
WatchFreeks Vendor
 
cavalcantistrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Surabaya, , Indonesia
My Photos: View
Posts: 71
Post imported post

If there is a luxury watch brand that has a lot of "REAL" fakes out there, that brand is Panerai.

I notice that is really hard to compare a High Quality Replica with a Genuine Panerai.

My friend is an experienced fine watch dealer, hes been working with Panerai's for more than 10 years ++

But even he is having difficulties in comparing them.

Please feel free to post if you have any information with this problem
__________________
All Leathers are our Canvas

www.cavalcantistraps.com

contact: [email protected]

FB: https://www.facebook.com/cavalcanti.mestiere.5

cavalcantistrap is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-18-2013, 12:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Tattoo Chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Death Valley, , USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 19,341
Post imported post

Open the case back.
Really it's the most decisive way.
Have to be real careful out there with fakes,
Panerai, Breitling, Rolex, Omega...some of them are so good you don't know till you open it up and check the movement.
Tattoo Chef is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 01:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
johnro6659's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Charlestown, Massachusetts, USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 2,393
Post imported post

I don't doubt it and I would predict it will be even harder in the future. I make regular trips to NYC and I see some great fakes down there. I only know they are fakes from the price. Rolex watches are the easiest to fake and are faked well and in very large numbers. Casio G Shock probably the second most faked! I have seen fakes with every type of movement inside. I notice more and more other high end brands popping up that were not knocked off before. The Chinese are getting better and better every year at making watches a lot of brands now are made in China. The Chinese movements we see in high end watches are being used in the knock offs. A lot of the cases and bands are made in China and they are making extras to sell on the black market or to make copies themselves. So it's possible to have a case that is actually the same one that some brand name watches buy. I have seen some movements that were replicated very well usually on exhibition back watches. I have popped off backs of watches friends own and found the movements have markings that are pretty dam good almost perfect. Under 10X magnification you can see that the engraving is a little rough but that is it. Truthfully if your buying a high end watch the price is too good to be true, it would be best to let a jewler check it out. I have never seen a knock off in NYC that sold for more than $50.00 with an auto or mech movement quartz as low as $10.00. Online they get 100s of dollars for the same knockoffs. Scammers will try and get much more if they think they can con someone into believing a watch is real. Even though it's illegal the Chinese government and police do not enforce the laws over there.

With the new technology, computer drafting, CNC, 3d scanning, 3d printers/rapid prototype machines, laser cutting and engraving it's easier to make fakes that are close to perfect. I heard a lot of these fakes are reverse engineered copied right from the real deal.
Myke, mikesr and ealansdale like this.
__________________
Time is an equal opportunity employer. Each human being has exactly the same number of hours and minutes every day. Rich people can't buy more hours. Scientists can't invent new minutes. And you can't save time to spend it on another day. Even so, time is amazingly fair and forgiving. No matter how much time you've wasted in the past, you still have an entire tomorrow.
johnro6659 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-18-2013, 01:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Tattoo Chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Death Valley, , USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 19,341
Post imported post

John.
It's not just the price to tip you off.
There are scums out there selling reps as the genuine article .
And that is where it is a problem.

My thing, if your going to buy a high end watch, buy from a reputable dealer or an AD. That way you'll be assured its genuine.
Tattoo Chef is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 01:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Balad1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Maryland / Hawaii, USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 8,145
Post imported post

I agree that it's a big problem and with the best replicas it's even possible to have them fitted with genuine Swiss ETA movements.

Also the OP is correct that some of the best reps are Panerai.

PS: replicas of this quality come direct from China and are not available anywhere in the U.S.
Balad1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 04:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
Moderator
 
ganson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Washington, District Of Columbia, USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 7,444
Post imported post

The Panerai reps are scary good.

Just look at some of the Homages many of us in this forum own (I'm pointing at the hand-winding Marina Militares). It would not take a lot to re-brand, but they also come with an optional Chinese "swan neck" movement which if engraved with Panerai branding is nearly indistinguishable from the original, even with a exhibition case-back.

Balad1 mentioned the Genuine Swiss movements, but the Chinese movements are the ones you need to worry about because they manage to clone all the major engraving and details form some in-house movements.

A dealer, or someone who has owned the original, may be able to tell with some examination, but many would be hard pressed to tell the difference on someones wrist, or through photos on the web.
blobb454 likes this.
__________________




-Garrick


"Times Magazines "Person of the Year" for 2003 and 2006."
Instagram: @Grrck
ganson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 08:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
WatchFreeks Vendor
 
snpr9696's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Long Beach Island, New Jersey, USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 1,890
Post imported post

A lot of replicas have tells either in the font or engravings and usually always in the movements.
If were speaking of Panerai specifically, most of them are done very well. There are a few tells however. Sometimes on the dial font PANERAI will have the wrong spacing near the "AI" so PANER A I. Not that exagerated obviously.
Crown guards might not sit flush of have the correct shape. The crown guard lever will be shaped incorrectly.
The Canon pin may not be rounded off correctly. Crown will sit flush against the case where most Gen Panerai will sit a few MM off the case and have a hexigon shaped tube. Crown teeth shaped incorrectly.

The Chinese take great steps in replication so the "factories" will continually come out with a new version V1,V2,V3 and so on correcting the pointed out flaws.
On the current versions one must be very careful.
Most of the dials are now exact, Lume is great. Canon pins and crown guards have been properly shaped. Crystals are properly coated colorless. Proper Crown and tube with spacing. So how do you tell?
They still do not have the movements replicated. Handcrankers still use a sticker for Officine Panerai and it is a give away. Another dead giveway is on the automatics. While the rotors have been replicated the bridges still have not. They will be marked but they will look like a normal everyday 2824 or such. They will not have the flat closed movement and proper marking of the CAl. P9000 for example. Even some of the Swan necks are wrong.
If its coming down to you spending thousands I would, as others have said, have an AD look at it or at the very least open it up and ask your fellow freaks to take a look. I myself know of no properly replicated Panerai movement.
ealansdale likes this.
__________________
My Work, My website
http://snprstrap.com/

Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/SNPRStraps

Instagram
http://instagram.com/snprstraps

snpr9696 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 08:54 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
TVDinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Raleigh, , USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 25,095
Post imported post

It is worse then even that. Many of the NYC or big city fakes don't compare to the real high end replicas. And in many cases it is people with some money buying these fakes to pretend to have more then they do and the better watch.

There are Swiss Made replicas out there that cost between $500-1500 for the replica. That seems like a lot of money but not really when the actual watch costs $10,000, $20,000 or more.

These are IDENTICAL to the real ones in every way, including weight of watch, materials used, fonts, hands, colors, logos, all boxes and paperwork, etc etc etc etc.

While some people say opening up the watch is the only way to tell, sometimes it takes even more then that. These high end replicas are duplicating some of the initially seen inside parts as well. AND some of these replicas are not coming from China but from countries you would not expect.

I saw with my own eyes a replica Breitling at the Breitling Authorized Dealer (AD) that they showed me. Some poor person brought in the Breitling they had bought privately for a lot of money to be serviced. It has worked for 4 years with no issues. The AD thought it was a real model until they opened it up and found out the truth. The person was obviously crushed, but even the AD could not tell initially. We looked at it closely side by side with a real one and there was no way to tell just from looking.

It is scary and makes WHERE you purchase and WHO you purchase from even more important - especially when you start looking at higher end watches. Scary.
ealansdale and Roarry like this.
__________________
Current Collection: a Breitling | an Omega | a Tag Heuer | a Seiko | and a G Shock
TVDinner is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 08:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
Moderator
 
ganson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Washington, District Of Columbia, USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 7,444
Post imported post

snpr9696 wrote:
Quote:
A lot of replicas have tells either in the font or engravings and usually always in the movements.
If were speaking of Panerai specifically, most of them are done very well. There are a few tells however. Sometimes on the dial font PANERAI will have the wrong spacing near the "AI" so PANER A I. Not that exagerated obviously.
Crown guards might not sit flush of have the correct shape. The crown guard lever will be shaped incorrectly.
The Canon pin may not be rounded off correctly.

The Chinese take great steps in replication so the "factories" will continually come out with a new version V1,V2,V3 and so on correcting the pointed out flaws.
On the current versions one must be very careful.
Most of the dials are now exact, Lume is great. Canon pins and crown guards have been properly shaped. Crystals are properly coated colorless. So how do you tell?
They still do not have the movements replicated. Handcrankers still use a sticker for Officine Panerai and it is a give away. Another dead giveway is on the automatics. While the rotors have been replicated the bridges still have not. They will be marked but they will look like a normal everyday 2824 or such. They will not have the flat closed movement and proper marking of the CAl. P9000 for example. Even some of the Swan necks are wrong.
If its coming down to you spending thousands I would, as others have said, have an AD look at it or at the very least open it up and ask your fellow freaks to take a look. I myself know of no properly replicated Panerai movement.
Agreed, not that I am in the market, but if I was going to spend even a few hundred dollars (let alone a few grand) I would bring it to an AD and have it looked over and authenticated. That goes double for Panerai, since the reps are getting harder to spot.



Side note, a Pam 1950 is on my short list of big money watches...someday.
__________________




-Garrick


"Times Magazines "Person of the Year" for 2003 and 2006."
Instagram: @Grrck
ganson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 09:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Spaceview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey / Arizona
My Photos: View
Posts: 24,243
Post imported post

I find it scary that so many people think that buying, owning, and wearing a replica is an OK thing to do. I know people that go to NYC looking to by a replica. They think that they will never own the real thing and can get the look and feel of having one by owning a replica. many, many people see nothing wrong with it. Same as Coach bags and other high end brands. I think it is just plane wrong. But many think it is an acceptable practice.
mikesr, Watchwearer and Roarry like this.
__________________
In Rotation: Accutron Spaceview T Case (1970), Tudor Pelagos 25500TN, Glycine Airman 17 Ref:3917.2, Glycine Airman 08 Chrono 7754, Omega Planet Ocean XL, Raymond Weil Nabucco GMT, Citizen Skyhawk JY0000-53E, Breitling Super Avenger A13370, Boschett Cave Dweller WF LE, Lum-Tec M53 Bronze, Uniq GAF44, Maranez Bangla Ti Cali Dial, Bathy's 100 Fathom, Maranez Bangla Ti LE, Ball Engineer Master II Aviator NM1080C-L3-BK, Orient Pro Saturation Diver EL02003W, REC M5 Mark I, Casio Tough Solar, SWAE Veteran, Panzera BREUER B44-01D (Celtic), Hamilton Sunset H62555153, Prometheus Poseidon, Luxmento Naylamp 300m Automatic Blue, Seiko Recraft, Vostok Europe Ekranoplan, Marina Militare, Hamilton Pan Europ Chrono

Smartwatches: Samsung Gear 2, Ticwatch 2
Spaceview is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 09:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
WatchFreeks Vendor
 
snpr9696's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Long Beach Island, New Jersey, USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 1,890
Post imported post

TVDinner wrote:
Quote:
It is worse then even that. Many of the NYC or big city fakes don't compare to the real high end replicas. And in many cases it is people with some money buying these fakes to pretend to have more then they do and the better watch. There are Swiss Made replicas out there that cost between $500-1500 for the replica. That seems like a lot of money but not really when the actual watch costs $10,000, $20,000 or more. These are IDENTICAL to the real ones in every way, including weight of watch, materials used, fonts, hands, colors, logos, all boxes and paperwork, etc etc etc etc. While some people say opening up the watch is the only way to tell, sometimes it takes even more then that. These high end replicas are duplicating some of the initially seen inside parts as well. AND some of these replicas are not coming from China but from countries you would not expect. I saw with my own eyes a replica Breitling at the AD that they showed me. Some poor person brought in the Breitling they had bought privately for a lot of money to be serviced. The AD thought it was a real model until they opened it up and found out the truth. The person was obviously crushed, but even the AD could not tell initially. We looked at it closely side by side with a real one and there was no way to tell just from looking. It is scary and makes WHERE you purchase and WHO you purchase from even more important - especially when you start looking at higher end watches. Scary.
I have not heard of any other countries replicating watches other then Asia. This is not to say that it hasn't happened but most of the really good "SWISS MADE" replicas are the exact ones made buy the factories in Asia. These sites just label them that way attempting to fish for the uneducated buyer searching for a replica watch. The best Panerai replicas cost anywhere from $200-450. These are made by 2 majors factories named H-Factory and Noob Factory. Don't try to find them because you will not. They constantly move.This is not to say that these watches have not been further modified. I all for the customer to take a watch to an AD but in all honesty most of these guys are just there for an hourly wage. You have to hope you run into a real WIS and the shop. I've been in numerous ADs and I myself am pointing out points of the watch that they have no idea about. My point is they are not the "last lines of defense" so to speak in the fight against fakes.
The reps above are the High end replicas Im speaking of....not the NYC canal street open heart Breitlings for 50 bucks.
__________________
My Work, My website
http://snprstrap.com/

Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/SNPRStraps

Instagram
http://instagram.com/snprstraps

snpr9696 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 09:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mesh Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Austin, Tx
My Photos: View
Posts: 4,217
Post imported post

If you like it and really can't tell that its a fake, buy it and go to Hawaii or someplace for a couple of months vacation with the money saved. Just don't jump in the pool with your watch on.
__________________

Mesh Guy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 09:08 AM   #13 (permalink)
WatchFreeks Vendor
 
snpr9696's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Long Beach Island, New Jersey, USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 1,890
Post imported post

Mesh Guy wrote:
Quote:
If you like it and really can't tell that its a fake, buy it and go to Hawaii or someplace for a couple of months vacation with the money saved. Just don't jump in the pool with your watch on.
Jump in the pool all you want....there water resistant as well.:c
__________________
My Work, My website
http://snprstrap.com/

Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/SNPRStraps

Instagram
http://instagram.com/snprstraps

snpr9696 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 09:51 AM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Tattoo Chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Death Valley, , USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 19,341
Post imported post

Mesh Guy wrote:
Quote:
If you like it and really can't tell that its a fake, buy it and go to Hawaii or someplace for a couple of months vacation with the money saved. Just don't jump in the pool with your watch on.
I hope your joking.

I don't know why anyone would want to buy a replica.
Fake watch= fake person.
Watchwearer, ealansdale and Roarry like this.
Tattoo Chef is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 10:27 AM   #15 (permalink)
Administrator
 
andrema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 11,412
Post imported post

RXW and JOA make some pretty convincing homages. They will cost you though.
__________________
Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.

Go check out the Dive Watches FBG -->> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1131038630296057/
andrema is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 10:48 AM   #16 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
TVDinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Raleigh, , USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 25,095
Post imported post

More importantly then that - it costs all of us more money when you support/buy these ILLEGAL fake watches.

The brands have to spend so much money policing these fake watches that WE (the watch lovers) end up paying higher prices.

There is NO POSITIVE REASON to buy a replica watch. None.
bapackerfan likes this.
__________________
Current Collection: a Breitling | an Omega | a Tag Heuer | a Seiko | and a G Shock
TVDinner is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 10:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 1,552
Post imported post

My tip is to buy the seller, also the item needs to come with all documentation. I just picked this up from a very reputable seller and have no concerns about authenticity. See through caseback as well, so the movement can be seen.



aztecknight is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 10:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
Moderator
 
ganson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Washington, District Of Columbia, USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 7,444
Post imported post

andrema wrote:
Quote:
RXW and JOA make some pretty convincing homages. They will cost you though.
I'm all for homages. I can't afford (or choose to afford) a multi-thousand dollar watch at this point in my life. If I can find something that is well made, and has a similar style that I like, I will probably buy it.

There are many homages that are borderline ripping off another companies design (case in point is my Marina Militare), and some that are a true homage taking the original design and putting their own spin on it.

A "replica" is a "fake" and is also considered counterfeit which last I checked is illegal. You want to wear a sterile dialed submariner? OK, that's your prerogative. You want a Chinese built sub with Rolex printed on the dial? that is another story.
blobb454 and Howard Beale like this.
__________________




-Garrick


"Times Magazines "Person of the Year" for 2003 and 2006."
Instagram: @Grrck
ganson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 11:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
TVDinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Raleigh, , USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 25,095
Post imported post

Agreed. There is a difference between a homage with a different company name on the product and an exact replica copy that perpetrates a fraud and uses the real company name. The replica is trying to pass off a fake copy of an original as the authentic item. That is illegal and the key difference is the use of the original company's name.
Watchwearer and Howard Beale like this.
__________________
Current Collection: a Breitling | an Omega | a Tag Heuer | a Seiko | and a G Shock
TVDinner is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2013, 12:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Wisconsin Proud's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NE Wisconsin, , USA
My Photos: View
Posts: 493
Post imported post

There's an easy way for Swiss brands to manage this problem of fakes - dont raise your damn prices 3 times per year!!

The fact is, if their profit margins were not so huge they could keep their prices down and entice buyers to their product rather than fakes.

When Swatch puts out a report of billions in profit then it shows their prices are way too high. They have effectively slammed the door on many potential customers to become and elite brand.

This is why people buy Marine Miliatire, LumTec, etc. they want the look but dont have or want to pay the cash for a Panerai. Are these brands cutting into Panerais profits? highly doubtful. What Panerai needs to do is keep prices attainable for their base watches (the hand crankers should cost about $3500 IMO) and get the customer in the store to see their product. At $3500, they are probably still make a huge margin.

Look at all you people who buy Panerai style straps and buckles. Shouldnt you be buying the real deal?? Either you are all in or all out.....
tomsimac and Harti361 like this.
Wisconsin Proud is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Forum Navigation

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Watch Freeks forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to spot a fake Hublot Big Bang andrema Hublot 22 03-11-2015 03:39 PM
How to spot a fake Seiko watch andrema Seiko 11 11-19-2011 06:16 AM
How to spot a fake Omega Seamaster... andrema Watch School 101: 0 07-06-2011 09:53 PM
How to spot a fake Rolex Submariner andrema Watch School 101: 0 07-06-2011 08:19 PM
How To Spot A Fake Rolex Bob Rolex 7 04-19-2010 01:46 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:03 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.