Metallurgist compares Steinhart Ocean One Premium to a Rolex. - Page 3 - Watch Freeks


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Old 02-24-2015, 02:44 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Other than the measurable and observable differences of a brand new watch pitted against another, the one thing that cannot be measured in the short run is how would they compare 5, 10, 15 years down the road with regular (daily) use. I'd bet Rolex stands well above Steinhart and any others in that price category in this aspect, and hence the much higher initial price and residual value.

Furthermore... "Out of the box" accuracy means very little to me. What the watch can achieve with correct adjustment and regulation is a better indication of accuracy and then it must also stand the test of time. (No pun intended)
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Old 02-24-2015, 05:33 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Other than the measurable and observable differences of a brand new watch pitted against another, the one thing that cannot be measured in the short run is how would they compare 5, 10, 15 years down the road with regular (daily) use. I'd bet Rolex stands well above Steinhart and any others in that price category in this aspect, and hence the much higher initial price and residual value.

Furthermore... "Out of the box" accuracy means very little to me. What the watch can achieve with correct adjustment and regulation is a better indication of accuracy and then it must also stand the test of time. (No pun intended)
Since I'm currently 68 yrs. Old, 15 yrs. is going to be about the max I will get out of any watch, and that's if I'm lucky.

Other then that, I fail to see how one watche's stainless steel, or fairly robust movement is going to really outlast another's, that's more a factor of luck of the draw and how well the owner maintains it.

If I had the time left on earth to want to posses a watch that would last the test of time after 20-30 years, I would be more inclined to purchase a Sinn tegimented cased model with the diapal movement.

I would bet that one would stand up to the years of beatings a lot better then a Rolex.

In summation, for what the price is for a SUBc is, I could purchase 18 Steinhart Ocean One Premiums, throw one away every year and still have three brand new ones to wear the end of your 15 year example, now that's a quality to price ratio Rolex can't come within the same galaxy with.

P.S. Steinhart's hold their value very very well, I bought a brand new OVM and flipped in less then a week and sold it for exactly what I purchased it for, try that with a brand new Sub and you will take a $2K-$3K beating.
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Old 02-24-2015, 06:16 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Since I'm currently 68 yrs. Old, 15 yrs. is going to be about the max I will get out of any watch, and that's if I'm lucky.

P.S. Steinhart's hold their value very very well, I bought a brand new OVM and flipped in less then a week and sold it for exactly what I purchased it for, try that with a brand new Sub and you will take a $2K-$3K beating.
Points well taken... I don't think I'd ever own a Rolex myself either., just because of the initial cash layout. Furthermore, I like variety and easy flips even if I lose a couple hundred at least I don't lose a couple thousand...

About one movement lasting longer than another... Higher quality materials and craftsmanship last longer than cheap ones that may perform well when new... JMHO
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Old 02-24-2015, 07:13 PM   #44 (permalink)
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About one movement lasting longer than another... Higher quality materials and craftsmanship last longer than cheap ones that may perform well when new... JMHO
I really don't think a mass produced Rolex 3135 movement is all that much better then a mass produced COSC ETA 2892-a2 or a Soprod A10 to start with.

The only thing the 3135 has for it's main drawing point is the vaunted "In House Movement" moniker, great movement for sure, but hardly eons ahead of the other two.

I own a Sub 16610, great, solid watch, but it was grossly overpriced at $1,700 when I purchased it new in 1996, and now it has taken the obscene pricing to galactic proportions with today's prices

Rolex is a wonderful watch, but it's a stinking watch, not the cure for cancer!
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Old 02-24-2015, 07:27 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Are all ETA and Soprod movements hand assembled?


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Old 02-24-2015, 07:35 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Are all ETA and Soprod movements hand assembled?


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If you believe each and every one, of the one million Rolex movements made every year, is completely hand assembled, I have some swampland to sell you in Florida.

The movements in my Citizen Signature automatics are (partially) hand assembled, so are the ones in my Orient Blue Ray, does that count too?
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Old 02-24-2015, 07:40 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Metallurgist compares Steinhart Ocean One Premium to a Rolex.

The only automated part of the movement assembly at rolex is the inventory delivery system.


"The Bienne site is the production facility for the movements of Rolex watches. More than 2,000 people are engaged in the manufacture and assembly of the hundreds of components comprising a Rolex movement. The components, often tiny and of complex geometry, are manufactured with a precision of the order of a few microns. Such rigorous execution allows 100 percent of Rolex movements to meet the accuracy criteria of the Swiss Official Chronometer Testing Institute (COSC). The assembly and regulating of the movements are carried out entirely by hand, by highly skilled operators and watchmakers."

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Old 02-24-2015, 08:47 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Old 02-24-2015, 09:26 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Chazman, first of all, don't say that, you may be very surprised. You may find out that in 15 years you are still in a lot better shape than some of your then 15 year old watches, and in 25 years, you may well wish you had bought a more durable watch.
Second, you've started an excellent thread. It has great info and discussion. Certain feathers are already being ruffled regarding the perceived (did I spell that right?) blasphemy of the notion, as always. Many times, in many threads on many forums, I have noticed the, shall we say, sensitivity, of Rolex owners and fans. I always chuckle at it. I don't think I'd have to try to prove my point all the time if I owned one, and certainly not as a fan.
James post was excellent. Rolex is a good value when looked at as an investment, usually. I'm not sure, however, that your $500 Steinhart won't be worth at least that in 10-15 years. Wearing a watch for that amount of time and not losing money on it is a good investment as well.

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Since I'm currently 68 yrs. Old, 15 yrs. is going to be about the max I will get out of any watch, and that's if I'm lucky.

Other then that, I fail to see how one watche's stainless steel, or fairly robust movement is going to really outlast another's, that's more a factor of luck of the draw and how well the owner maintains it.

If I had the time left on earth to want to posses a watch that would last the test of time after 20-30 years, I would be more inclined to purchase a Sinn tegimented cased model with the diapal movement.

I would bet that one would stand up to the years of beatings a lot better then a Rolex.

In summation, for what the price is for a SUBc is, I could purchase 18 Steinhart Ocean One Premiums, throw one away every year and still have three brand new ones to wear the end of your 15 year example, now that's a quality to price ratio Rolex can't come within the same galaxy with.

P.S. Steinhart's hold their value very very well, I bought a brand new OVM and flipped in less then a week and sold it for exactly what I purchased it for, try that with a brand new Sub and you will take a $2K-$3K beating.
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:01 PM   #50 (permalink)
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In summation, for what the price is for a SUBc is, I could purchase 18 Steinhart Ocean One Premiums, throw one away every year and still have three brand new ones to wear the end of your 15 year example, now that's a quality to price ratio Rolex can't come within the same galaxy with.
Where did I read that before?
Looks like arguing a senseless point, just for the sake of arguing....
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:04 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I don't see any reason why it is senseless if it is true.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:40 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I don't see any reason why it is senseless if it is true.
Actually, it is senseless.

If you take his proposition, let's use easy round numbers, and purchased $8000 worth of Steinhart "homages", let's not forget to thank Rolex for the iconic design that others "borrow", then after 15 years he'll have $1k worth of Steinharts for which he paid $8k for. On the other hand, he might actually make money on the Rolex. Which would you rather have? Is it not senseless to their money down the drain?

When it comes to arguing about what you actually get for your investment, it is hard to beat Rolex.
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:20 AM   #53 (permalink)
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The only automated part of the movement assembly at rolex is the inventory delivery system.


"The Bienne site is the production facility for the movements of Rolex watches. More than 2,000 people are engaged in the manufacture and assembly of the hundreds of components comprising a Rolex movement. The components, often tiny and of complex geometry, are manufactured with a precision of the order of a few microns. Such rigorous execution allows 100 percent of Rolex movements to meet the accuracy criteria of the Swiss Official Chronometer Testing Institute (COSC). The assembly and regulating of the movements are carried out entirely by hand, by highly skilled operators and watchmakers."

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I stand corrected! Rolex does indeed hand assemble each movement.

BUT.........so does Orient. Reference the frame at 1:54 on the video

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...6F1D4464F303AD
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:44 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Actually, it is senseless.

If you take his proposition, let's use easy round numbers, and purchased $8000 worth of Steinhart "homages", let's not forget to thank Rolex for the iconic design that others "borrow", then after 15 years he'll have $1k worth of Steinharts for which he paid $8k for. On the other hand, he might actually make money on the Rolex. Which would you rather have? Is it not senseless to their money down the drain?

When it comes to arguing about what you actually get for your investment, it is hard to beat Rolex.
I own a Rolex, a 16610, I didn't purchase it as an investment, I purchased it at the time thinking this was the be all, end all of watches and yes, in a vain attempt to impress people, it hasn't! The only attention it got was when people would inquire if it is real or not.

If truth be known, I was more in love with my first watch, a Zodiac Seawolf, then I ever was with this Sub, I actually chose it over a Sub when I purchased it on a Navy ship, I liked the looks better. The Seawolf cost me $120 and the Sub was $180. Didn't think the Sub was worth the additional $60, boy was that a giant mistake, that watch is selling as a vintage model for over $10K now! But's that's hindsight, isn't it? If I had a time machine I would go back and buy three of them, and then later some Apple stock too!

If I could have found someone back in the 70's who could have serviced the Zodiac I would probably still be wearing it today.

While my 16610 Sub has indeed, held it's value, it's probably worth two three times of what I purchased it for. So yes in that sense it is an investment, and that's partially why it resides in a safety deposit box back in Chicago with some stocks and bonds. It gets zero wrist time, frankly because I got bored with the black dial sub look, the Mercedes hands and Cyclops.

I know I just bought a Steinhart with Mercedes hands and a Cyclops, but those (to me) flaws are offset by the stunning dial and ceramic bezel and 42mm case. If Steinhart ditched the Cyclops on this model, and put a set of sword hands on it, I would be ecstatic.

As far as my buying 18 Steinhart's instead of a Rolex, that was a lame attempt at me to be facetious. But in reality if I flipped a Steinhart every year and invested the money, and still had three left over at the end, I don't think I would be out at all.

What do you think a BNIB 2015 Steinhart could go for in 2030? I would think a lot more then $500.

That is, if people are even wearing mechanical wrist watches in 2030, People may have cranial implants giving a heads up time and computer displays by then. (now that was another attempt at being facetious)
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:41 AM   #55 (permalink)
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What I meant was the argument itself isn't senseless if it is accurate. There are two sides, and both could be seen as the right one by an objective person.
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Actually, it is senseless.

If you take his proposition, let's use easy round numbers, and purchased $8000 worth of Steinhart "homages", let's not forget to thank Rolex for the iconic design that others "borrow", then after 15 years he'll have $1k worth of Steinharts for which he paid $8k for. On the other hand, he might actually make money on the Rolex. Which would you rather have? Is it not senseless to their money down the drain?

When it comes to arguing about what you actually get for your investment, it is hard to beat Rolex.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:03 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Metallurgist compares Steinhart Ocean One Premium to a Rolex.

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Originally Posted by Chazman1946 View Post
I stand corrected! Rolex does indeed hand assemble each movement.

BUT.........so does Orient. Reference the frame at 1:54 on the video

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...6F1D4464F303AD

I'm just stating facts. They also make 99.9% of the parts for their watches.


As far as being a fan or fanboy because I own a Rolex...I own as many or more Omega, Heuer, Tudor, Panerai, IWC, Aegir...etc. models than Rolex. Sure, they are sort of expensive, but so are many other brands. If you look at pricing over the past 5 years as an example, there are some brands that have increased prices close to 50% or more!

I get it, people just like to take shots at Rolex because it is easy. But, without their innovations and designs over the years many of these brands, like Steinhart wouldn't exist.

Sure, I like Rolex, I like them for their passion. They invest in their business with cutting edge factories to fabricate their watch components and hand assemble watches, laboratories to develop new lubricants and watch materials, and to top this off they lead the market with world class quality control as well as superior customer service. So, does that create jealousy and resentment from other brands and their customers, sure...not from me, only admiration.

For the record, I have never been asked about my SubC or any of my watches. I guess that I am just lucky an have avoided all of the knucklheads in the world


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Old 02-25-2015, 09:50 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Chazzman:
Amen Bro. You nailed it with your posts.

X traindriver Art
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:16 AM   #58 (permalink)
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I get it, people just like to take shots at Rolex because it is easy. But, without their innovations and designs over the years many of these brands, like Steinhart wouldn't exist.

Sure, I like Rolex, I like them for their passion. They invest in their business with cutting edge factories to fabricate their watch components and hand assemble watches, laboratories to develop new lubricants and watch materials, as well as has world class quality control. So, does that create jealousy and resentment from other brands and their customers, sure...not from me, only admiration.

For the record, I have never been asked about my SubC or any of my watches. I guess that I am just lucky an have avoided all of the knucklheads in the world


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Rolex is the benchmark by which all others are measured... at least on the forums.... and at least for microbrands. What did Ric Flair say?

I also own a bunch of watches, some nice, and rarely get any comments, much less asked if it is real. What kind of question is that? Rude if you ask me.

Rolex knows how Ric Flair feels.

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Old 02-25-2015, 04:22 PM   #59 (permalink)
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They invest in their business with cutting edge factories to fabricate their watch components and hand assemble watches, laboratories to develop new lubricants and watch materials, and to top this off they lead the market with world class quality control as well as superior customer service
I agree on almost every count, except they certainly aren't setting records for recent innovations.

The last watch you bought, a Sinn, has a better record of recent innovations in watch manufacture then Rolex does.

Submarine steel, tegimented cases and bracelets, Diapal movement requiring no lubricants on the escapement, anti-moisture technology ie: copper sulfate capsule and argon gas filled case. Oil filled cased watches for super WR down to 5,000 meters (although he diver would be dead after 300m). Sinn's cases are made by SUG, the same manufacturer that does A. Lange & Sohne, so I would say the fit and finish on the Sinn is too shabby if that's the case, pun intended.

These are all advancements that enhance and lengthen the time between servicing and make for a more robust, sturdy tool watch.

Rolex used to have this mantra, but now they have went Hollywood and want to be pretty and high priced.

As for Rolex service, well it better be excellent for what the price is for the watch and the servicing. BTW, never had my sub serviced, it was still running +6 the day it went into the safety deposit box 5 years ago.
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:04 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I really don't think a mass produced Rolex 3135 movement is all that much better then a mass produced COSC ETA 2892-a2 or a Soprod A10 to start with.

The only thing the 3135 has for it's main drawing point is the vaunted "In House Movement" moniker, great movement for sure, but hardly eons ahead of the other two.

I own a Sub 16610, great, solid watch, but it was grossly overpriced at $1,700 when I purchased it new in 1996, and now it has taken the obscene pricing to galactic proportions with today's prices

Rolex is a wonderful watch, but it's a stinking watch, not the cure for cancer!
All true... I was thinking in comparison to a cheaper Asian or Chinese movement...

I like to think of Rolex like I think of Harley Davidson Motorcycles... The perceive value of both may or may not justify the price and they are not the best in their respective categories but they're not the worst either... Brand recognition and resale value account for at least 50% of their value IMHO...
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