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How do we spot a fake PANERAI?

103K views 59 replies 27 participants last post by  tinknocker 
#1 ·
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If there is a luxury watch brand that has a lot of "REAL" fakes out there, that brand is Panerai.

I notice that is really hard to compare a High Quality Replica with a Genuine Panerai.

My friend is an experienced fine watch dealer, hes been working with Panerai's for more than 10 years ++

But even he is having difficulties in comparing them.

Please feel free to post if you have any information with this problem
 
#3 ·
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I don't doubt it and I would predict it will be even harder in the future. I make regular trips to NYC and I see some great fakes down there. I only know they are fakes from the price. Rolex watches are the easiest to fake and are faked well and in very large numbers. Casio G Shock probably the second most faked! I have seen fakes with every type of movement inside. I notice more and more other high end brands popping up that were not knocked off before. The Chinese are getting better and better every year at making watches a lot of brands now are made in China. The Chinese movements we see in high end watches are being used in the knock offs. A lot of the cases and bands are made in China and they are making extras to sell on the black market or to make copies themselves. So it's possible to have a case that is actually the same one that some brand name watches buy. I have seen some movements that were replicated very well usually on exhibition back watches. I have popped off backs of watches friends own and found the movements have markings that are pretty dam good almost perfect. Under 10X magnification you can see that the engraving is a little rough but that is it. Truthfully if your buying a high end watch the price is too good to be true, it would be best to let a jewler check it out. I have never seen a knock off in NYC that sold for more than $50.00 with an auto or mech movement quartz as low as $10.00. Online they get 100s of dollars for the same knockoffs. Scammers will try and get much more if they think they can con someone into believing a watch is real. Even though it's illegal the Chinese government and police do not enforce the laws over there.

With the new technology, computer drafting, CNC, 3d scanning, 3d printers/rapid prototype machines, laser cutting and engraving it's easier to make fakes that are close to perfect. I heard a lot of these fakes are reverse engineered copied right from the real deal.
 
#6 ·
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The Panerai reps are scary good.

Just look at some of the Homages many of us in this forum own (I'm pointing at the hand-winding Marina Militares). It would not take a lot to re-brand, but they also come with an optional Chinese "swan neck" movement which if engraved with Panerai branding is nearly indistinguishable from the original, even with a exhibition case-back.

Balad1 mentioned the Genuine Swiss movements, but the Chinese movements are the ones you need to worry about because they manage to clone all the major engraving and details form some in-house movements.

A dealer, or someone who has owned the original, may be able to tell with some examination, but many would be hard pressed to tell the difference on someones wrist, or through photos on the web.
 
#7 ·
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A lot of replicas have tells either in the font or engravings and usually always in the movements.
If were speaking of Panerai specifically, most of them are done very well. There are a few tells however. Sometimes on the dial font PANERAI will have the wrong spacing near the "AI" so PANER A I. Not that exagerated obviously.
Crown guards might not sit flush of have the correct shape. The crown guard lever will be shaped incorrectly.
The Canon pin may not be rounded off correctly. Crown will sit flush against the case where most Gen Panerai will sit a few MM off the case and have a hexigon shaped tube. Crown teeth shaped incorrectly.

The Chinese take great steps in replication so the "factories" will continually come out with a new version V1,V2,V3 and so on correcting the pointed out flaws.
On the current versions one must be very careful.
Most of the dials are now exact, Lume is great. Canon pins and crown guards have been properly shaped. Crystals are properly coated colorless. Proper Crown and tube with spacing. So how do you tell?
They still do not have the movements replicated. Handcrankers still use a sticker for Officine Panerai and it is a give away. Another dead giveway is on the automatics. While the rotors have been replicated the bridges still have not. They will be marked but they will look like a normal everyday 2824 or such. They will not have the flat closed movement and proper marking of the CAl. P9000 for example. Even some of the Swan necks are wrong.
If its coming down to you spending thousands I would, as others have said, have an AD look at it or at the very least open it up and ask your fellow freaks to take a look. I myself know of no properly replicated Panerai movement.
 
#41 ·
A lot of replicas have tells either in the font or engravings and usually always in the movements.
If were speaking of Panerai specifically, most of them are done very well. There are a few tells however. Sometimes on the dial font PANERAI will have the wrong spacing near the "AI" so PANER A I. Not that exagerated obviously.
Crown guards might not sit flush of have the correct shape. The crown guard lever will be shaped incorrectly.
The Canon pin may not be rounded off correctly. Crown will sit flush against the case where most Gen Panerai will sit a few MM off the case and have a hexigon shaped tube. Crown teeth shaped incorrectly..
great point on the logo spacing!

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Strap
 
#8 ·
imported post

It is worse then even that. Many of the NYC or big city fakes don't compare to the real high end replicas. And in many cases it is people with some money buying these fakes to pretend to have more then they do and the better watch.

There are Swiss Made replicas out there that cost between $500-1500 for the replica. That seems like a lot of money but not really when the actual watch costs $10,000, $20,000 or more.

These are IDENTICAL to the real ones in every way, including weight of watch, materials used, fonts, hands, colors, logos, all boxes and paperwork, etc etc etc etc.

While some people say opening up the watch is the only way to tell, sometimes it takes even more then that. These high end replicas are duplicating some of the initially seen inside parts as well. AND some of these replicas are not coming from China but from countries you would not expect.

I saw with my own eyes a replica Breitling at the Breitling Authorized Dealer (AD) that they showed me. Some poor person brought in the Breitling they had bought privately for a lot of money to be serviced. It has worked for 4 years with no issues. The AD thought it was a real model until they opened it up and found out the truth. The person was obviously crushed, but even the AD could not tell initially. We looked at it closely side by side with a real one and there was no way to tell just from looking.

It is scary and makes WHERE you purchase and WHO you purchase from even more important - especially when you start looking at higher end watches. Scary.
 
#9 ·
imported post

snpr9696 wrote:
A lot of replicas have tells either in the font or engravings and usually always in the movements.
If were speaking of Panerai specifically, most of them are done very well. There are a few tells however. Sometimes on the dial font PANERAI will have the wrong spacing near the "AI" so PANER A I. Not that exagerated obviously.
Crown guards might not sit flush of have the correct shape. The crown guard lever will be shaped incorrectly.
The Canon pin may not be rounded off correctly.

The Chinese take great steps in replication so the "factories" will continually come out with a new version V1,V2,V3 and so on correcting the pointed out flaws.
On the current versions one must be very careful.
Most of the dials are now exact, Lume is great. Canon pins and crown guards have been properly shaped. Crystals are properly coated colorless. So how do you tell?
They still do not have the movements replicated. Handcrankers still use a sticker for Officine Panerai and it is a give away. Another dead giveway is on the automatics. While the rotors have been replicated the bridges still have not. They will be marked but they will look like a normal everyday 2824 or such. They will not have the flat closed movement and proper marking of the CAl. P9000 for example. Even some of the Swan necks are wrong.
If its coming down to you spending thousands I would, as others have said, have an AD look at it or at the very least open it up and ask your fellow freaks to take a look. I myself know of no properly replicated Panerai movement.
Agreed, not that I am in the market, but if I was going to spend even a few hundred dollars (let alone a few grand) I would bring it to an AD and have it looked over and authenticated. That goes double for Panerai, since the reps are getting harder to spot.



Side note, a Pam 1950 is on my short list of big money watches...someday.
 
#10 ·
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I find it scary that so many people think that buying, owning, and wearing a replica is an OK thing to do. I know people that go to NYC looking to by a replica. They think that they will never own the real thing and can get the look and feel of having one by owning a replica. many, many people see nothing wrong with it. Same as Coach bags and other high end brands. I think it is just plane wrong. But many think it is an acceptable practice.
 
#11 ·
imported post

TVDinner wrote:
It is worse then even that. Many of the NYC or big city fakes don't compare to the real high end replicas. And in many cases it is people with some money buying these fakes to pretend to have more then they do and the better watch. There are Swiss Made replicas out there that cost between $500-1500 for the replica. That seems like a lot of money but not really when the actual watch costs $10,000, $20,000 or more. These are IDENTICAL to the real ones in every way, including weight of watch, materials used, fonts, hands, colors, logos, all boxes and paperwork, etc etc etc etc. While some people say opening up the watch is the only way to tell, sometimes it takes even more then that. These high end replicas are duplicating some of the initially seen inside parts as well. AND some of these replicas are not coming from China but from countries you would not expect. I saw with my own eyes a replica Breitling at the AD that they showed me. Some poor person brought in the Breitling they had bought privately for a lot of money to be serviced. The AD thought it was a real model until they opened it up and found out the truth. The person was obviously crushed, but even the AD could not tell initially. We looked at it closely side by side with a real one and there was no way to tell just from looking. It is scary and makes WHERE you purchase and WHO you purchase from even more important - especially when you start looking at higher end watches. Scary.
I have not heard of any other countries replicating watches other then Asia. This is not to say that it hasn't happened but most of the really good "SWISS MADE" replicas are the exact ones made buy the factories in Asia. These sites just label them that way attempting to fish for the uneducated buyer searching for a replica watch. The best Panerai replicas cost anywhere from $200-450. These are made by 2 majors factories named H-Factory and Noob Factory. Don't try to find them because you will not. They constantly move.This is not to say that these watches have not been further modified. I all for the customer to take a watch to an AD but in all honesty most of these guys are just there for an hourly wage. You have to hope you run into a real WIS and the shop. I've been in numerous ADs and I myself am pointing out points of the watch that they have no idea about. My point is they are not the "last lines of defense" so to speak in the fight against fakes.
The reps above are the High end replicas Im speaking of....not the NYC canal street open heart Breitlings for 50 bucks.
 
#16 ·
imported post

More importantly then that - it costs all of us more money when you support/buy these ILLEGAL fake watches.

The brands have to spend so much money policing these fake watches that WE (the watch lovers) end up paying higher prices.

There is NO POSITIVE REASON to buy a replica watch. None.
 
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#18 ·
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andrema wrote:
RXW and JOA make some pretty convincing homages. They will cost you though.
I'm all for homages. I can't afford (or choose to afford) a multi-thousand dollar watch at this point in my life. If I can find something that is well made, and has a similar style that I like, I will probably buy it.

There are many homages that are borderline ripping off another companies design (case in point is my Marina Militare), and some that are a true homage taking the original design and putting their own spin on it.

A "replica" is a "fake" and is also considered counterfeit which last I checked is illegal. You want to wear a sterile dialed submariner? OK, that's your prerogative. You want a Chinese built sub with Rolex printed on the dial? that is another story.
 
#19 ·
imported post

Agreed. There is a difference between a homage with a different company name on the product and an exact replica copy that perpetrates a fraud and uses the real company name. The replica is trying to pass off a fake copy of an original as the authentic item. That is illegal and the key difference is the use of the original company's name.
 
#20 ·
imported post

There's an easy way for Swiss brands to manage this problem of fakes - dont raise your damn prices 3 times per year!!

The fact is, if their profit margins were not so huge they could keep their prices down and entice buyers to their product rather than fakes.

When Swatch puts out a report of billions in profit then it shows their prices are way too high. They have effectively slammed the door on many potential customers to become and elite brand.

This is why people buy Marine Miliatire, LumTec, etc. they want the look but dont have or want to pay the cash for a Panerai. Are these brands cutting into Panerais profits? highly doubtful. What Panerai needs to do is keep prices attainable for their base watches (the hand crankers should cost about $3500 IMO) and get the customer in the store to see their product. At $3500, they are probably still make a huge margin.

Look at all you people who buy Panerai style straps and buckles. Shouldnt you be buying the real deal?? Either you are all in or all out.....
 
#21 ·
imported post

Tattoo Chef wrote:
Mesh Guy wrote:
If you like it and really can't tell that its a fake, buy it and go to Hawaii or someplace for a couple of months vacation with the money saved. Just don't jump in the pool with your watch on. :)
I hope your joking.

I don't know why anyone would want to buy a replica.
Fake watch= fake person.

Not supporting anything fake; just a little Monday morning humor (or attempt at humor, it would seem).
 
#22 ·
imported post

Wisconsin Proud wrote:
There's an easy way for Swiss brands to manage this problem of fakes - dont raise your damn prices 3 times per year!!

The fact is, if their profit margins were not so huge they could keep their prices down and entice buyers to their product rather than fakes.

When Swatch puts out a report of billions in profit then it shows their prices are way too high. They have effectively slammed the door on many potential customers to become and elite brand.

This is why people buy Marine Miliatire, LumTec, etc. they want the look but dont have or want to pay the cash for a Panerai. Are these brands cutting into Panerais profits? highly doubtful. What Panerai needs to do is keep prices attainable for their base watches (the hand crankers should cost about $3500 IMO) and get the customer in the store to see their product. At $3500, they are probably still make a huge margin.

Look at all you people who buy Panerai style straps and buckles.  Shouldnt you be buying the real deal?? Either you are all in or all out.....
I don't want this to come off wrong, as I can't afford Panerai, Rolex, etc.
But they don't need to keep their prices lower so people can obtain them.
They are high end luxury watches, like Mercedes, BMW... Not everyone can afford...that's what makes them elite. It's a status symbol.
They are of the mind, if we make more expensive we become more elite...
My opinion,
 
#23 ·
imported post

Tattoo Chef wrote:
Wisconsin Proud wrote:
There's an easy way for Swiss brands to manage this problem of fakes - dont raise your damn prices 3 times per year!!

The fact is, if their profit margins were not so huge they could keep their prices down and entice buyers to their product rather than fakes.

When Swatch puts out a report of billions in profit then it shows their prices are way too high. They have effectively slammed the door on many potential customers to become and elite brand.

This is why people buy Marine Miliatire, LumTec, etc. they want the look but dont have or want to pay the cash for a Panerai. Are these brands cutting into Panerais profits? highly doubtful. What Panerai needs to do is keep prices attainable for their base watches (the hand crankers should cost about $3500 IMO) and get the customer in the store to see their product. At $3500, they are probably still make a huge margin.

Look at all you people who buy Panerai style straps and buckles. Shouldnt you be buying the real deal?? Either you are all in or all out.....
I don't want this to come off wrong, as I can't afford Panerai, Rolex, etc.
But they don't need to keep their prices lower so people can obtain them.
They are high end luxury watches, like Mercedes, BMW... Not everyone can afford...that's what makes them elite. It's a status symbol.
They are of the mind, if we make more expensive we become more elite...
My opinion,
I agree, James.

What I dont agree with is that these brands take a financial hit every time a fake gets sold. If anything, the fake may brings sales to Panerai by exposing their brand.

I think the article last month in WatchTime about fakes was full of halftruths. I'm sure the brands had WT do this piece to protect their names. I still buy Swiss brands but not like before. I think they are getting too big fro their britches and throw their weight around like they are the only game in town. meanwhile, watches costing MUCH less are being made to higher standards than ever before proving that price isn't always indicative of quality.

In some regard, I think the high priced brands started a fight they can't win.
 
#24 ·
imported post

Wisconsin Proud wrote:
Tattoo Chef wrote:
Wisconsin Proud wrote:
There's an easy way for Swiss brands to manage this problem of fakes - dont raise your damn prices 3 times per year!!

The fact is, if their profit margins were not so huge they could keep their prices down and entice buyers to their product rather than fakes.

When Swatch puts out a report of billions in profit then it shows their prices are way too high. They have effectively slammed the door on many potential customers to become and elite brand.

This is why people buy Marine Miliatire, LumTec, etc. they want the look but dont have or want to pay the cash for a Panerai. Are these brands cutting into Panerais profits? highly doubtful. What Panerai needs to do is keep prices attainable for their base watches (the hand crankers should cost about $3500 IMO) and get the customer in the store to see their product. At $3500, they are probably still make a huge margin.

Look at all you people who buy Panerai style straps and buckles. Shouldnt you be buying the real deal?? Either you are all in or all out.....
I don't want this to come off wrong, as I can't afford Panerai, Rolex, etc.
But they don't need to keep their prices lower so people can obtain them.
They are high end luxury watches, like Mercedes, BMW... Not everyone can afford...that's what makes them elite. It's a status symbol.
They are of the mind, if we make more expensive we become more elite...
My opinion,
I agree, James.
:)
 
#25 ·
imported post

andrema wrote:
Wisconsin Proud wrote:
Tattoo Chef wrote:
Wisconsin Proud wrote:
There's an easy way for Swiss brands to manage this problem of fakes - dont raise your damn prices 3 times per year!!

The fact is, if their profit margins were not so huge they could keep their prices down and entice buyers to their product rather than fakes.

When Swatch puts out a report of billions in profit then it shows their prices are way too high. They have effectively slammed the door on many potential customers to become and elite brand.

This is why people buy Marine Miliatire, LumTec, etc. they want the look but dont have or want to pay the cash for a Panerai. Are these brands cutting into Panerais profits? highly doubtful. What Panerai needs to do is keep prices attainable for their base watches (the hand crankers should cost about $3500 IMO) and get the customer in the store to see their product. At $3500, they are probably still make a huge margin.

Look at all you people who buy Panerai style straps and buckles.  Shouldnt you be buying the real deal?? Either you are all in or all out.....
I don't want this to come off wrong, as I can't afford Panerai, Rolex, etc.
But they don't need to keep their prices lower so people can obtain them.
They are high end luxury watches, like Mercedes, BMW... Not everyone can afford...that's what makes them elite. It's a status symbol.
They are of the mind, if we make more expensive we become more elite...
My opinion,
I agree, James.
:)
Better than being called Tattoo CHEIF .....:eek:
 
#26 ·
imported post

I actually had bought a Raymond Weil nabucco chrono rep version because I was interested in the gen but wanted to try one out first to make sure I was comfortable with the size (I was not) but I always told people it was a replica. I am glad I did because instead of losing many hundreds on a resell of the gen I was able to get most of my money back. Funny thing is of all my watches I had my wife liked that one the best in terms of eye appeal.
 
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