Miyota 9015 and Micro brands - Watch Freeks


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Old 07-03-2013, 03:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Miyota 9015 and Micro brands

With not wanting to clutter another thread where this was being discussed....

I see alot of people saying $600 for a watch with a 9015 is too much.

Actually I see people saying $500 is too much.


But we all know what is going on with ETA.

A quick list off the top of my head of micro brands now all using Miyota 9015 movements, and more than $500.


Halios.
Benarus.
Boschett.
Armida
Helson
Dagaz
Magrette
Lum-tec

And I know there are more.

I think the days of micro brand divers and Eta movements and $500 price points are far behind us.

Just some commentary.
We might not all like it, but it seems this is what we are going to get.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I never owned a watch with a 9015 movement but if it runs smooth and a accurate then it would be fine with me. I would still pay more for the same watch with a Swiss movement but I don't know why.....
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i think you're right, unfortunately. I want to try a 9015, but ****, buy the time I'll be able to, the prices are going to be too high.

I may have to get a Hammy intra-matic, with an ETA 2892 in it, for about 600 bucks.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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People will pull their pants up over their waists and complain regardless.

It doesn't seem too over-the-top to me.

If you want it and don't want to pay for it, wait awhile and check WatchRecon.

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Old 07-03-2013, 04:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doglover View Post
I never owned a watch with a 9015 movement but if it runs smooth and a accurate then it would be fine with me. I would still pay more for the same watch with a Swiss movement but I don't know why.....

(NONE of this is directed at you doglover. just using your quote for my point below)

And that is EXACTLY what the Swiss watch Federation are hoping for. PERCEIVED VALUE that creates purchasing and overpaying even when not warranted or realistic.

We can already see the "Swiss hold" on the watch world changing. It just is whether people want to realize it or not and admit that you CAN get great quality and sometimes just as good or better quality from vendors OUTSIDE of the "Swiss brands".

There ARE QUALITY movements, parts, and watches being made outside of Switzerland that are on par with the traditional Switzerland brands. There are watch makers and companies outside of Switzerland catching up fast - as I would expect them to in the modern world with greater production availability and computers computers computers making the process more precise and accessible to many more people.

Does "being Swiss" still carry some weight and increased cost - yes, but A LOT less then I remember it years ago. Their dominance and stranglehold on making quality watches has LESSENED considerably. We all have seen it, again whether we want to admit it or not.

I have felt strongly since the entire Swatch group movement thing with them not producing for others any more (or less) that all this would do is make the rest of the watch making world stronger - and in turn force them to produce better and better products in general. Who benefits - US.

I LOVE seeing the 9015 movement in watches. It is a GREAT movement from my experience and you know what - the costs ARE right in line with where they should be right now.

And for the people who don't buy non Swiss movements for no other reason then they are not ETA or Swiss made AND have never actually had a watch with another movement in it - you really can not talk or judge. You have no idea what you are talking about to be 100% honest.

My non Swiss movement watches have ALL performed ON PAR with my "Swiss" movement watches. They just have and no reason to say otherwise. I have had cheap Chinese watches with movements that have been as accurate as my COSC watches. Seems crazy - BUT TRUE. I have had Swiss supposedly great movements perform TERRIBLY and need constant servicing.

The 9015 and others like it are quality movements that are being made to last and compete with the traditional companies. There have been no mass problems and from everything i have read these movements perform as well or better then many of the ETA movements. So no one should have any problems, other then pre existing snobbery for only buying Swiss brands and products.

JMHO
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Nice post TC. Dead on.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well, I know I was, and others too, hoping that you would be able to buy a, say 9015, for less than a 2892, especially the way the Swiss are trying limit the movements.

But, as business goes, Asian movement market will just raise their prices because there's more demand for it.

I couldn't care less about the Swiss, I was hoping I would be able to get a decent watch for a less, and as always, that never works out, so I don't know if WE are benefiting.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yep, it's all changing but that doesn't mean I will.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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All other things being equal I would take a less expensive 9015 over an ETA. I have found them to be quality movements right on par with a 2824.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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A 9015 will not stop me from purchasing a watch. Nor will a Sii NH35, like the one coming in the new Lum-Tec M53. Now, I will watch price as much as possible and I still expect to pay a little more for a Swiss movement. But I will buy watches with other movements as long as they are what I perceive as quality timepieces. I think this Swiss superiority is ancient history and they are living on their past when the rest of the world made crap and they were king. That is no longer the case in my opinion. The Japanese have caught up and maybe even, in some cases, surpassed the Swiss.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yes, I'm not saying I wouldn't buy one, just that I won't pay that much for one and haven't.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litlmn View Post
All other things being equal I would take a less expensive 9015 over an ETA. I have found them to be quality movements right on par with a 2824.
But if the watch was the same price? That seems to be the problem, to me. Less expensive movement, but the watch is still at a high price.

I personally would go with the 9015 just because I don't have one and I have a couple of 2824's.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Like TV said, it's about PERCEIVED VALUE.

I have seen ETA 2824-2 movements in watches ranging from $300 up to many thousands. So why can't that be the case for the Miyota?

The 9015 is a great movement, highly accurate, and should be very durable. I see no reason why if the rest of the watch it is in is well designed and built why having a Miyota over ETA should matter.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I know that Android uses this movement a lot and their watches are very reasonably priced. True most of their pieces aren't on part with some pf the ones listed, but I will say that the one 9015 I own runs at about +4 seconds a day and is super smooth.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I currently own two watches with the 9015 movement, a Benarus Remora II and a Precista PRS-18A. In the past, I've also had a Helson Tortuga. Based on my experience, there is little or no difference in the performance of the Miyota 9015 compared to the ETA 2824-2. Simply because of the perceived value and resale, I would be willing to pay a little more to get the ETA movement, but in the end, what really counts is how much I like the watch and the reputation of the brand.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I am looking at my watch winder right now. I have a Lum-Tec with an Sii-NH35 movement, a Lum-Tec with a Miyota 9015, a Deep Blue with a Swiss ETA and a Marina Militare I bought for $72.00 with a Chinese movement. And they all have the correct time! If you like the watch and it's in your budget buy the watch. I've learned to not get too hung up on the movement.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have 2 dagaz cav and Magette
All with 9015
Love em
No issues when worn
On winder they gain a bit
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yes, it really comes down to what you just stated Krin.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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It IS all about perception. And the Swiss have been the preeminent watchmakers in the world for centuries.
To be clear I think there is nothing "wrong" with the 9015. In fact I've said many times that I think it's a fine movement. Equivalent to the ETA 2824-2? No.
Some of you have no problem spending $500+ on a 9015 powered watch. Some of us do. Don't see how either party is right or wrong as is it's an opinion. We all have 'em.
The future of micro brands may indeed be Citizen. Personally I see this as a missed opportunity for Seiko. And don't count out the Swiss. They were on the ropes just a few decades ago and managed to not only survive but ultimately thrive... Then there's the Chinese.
For me, I'd rather stick to Swiss movements for watches costing over $300 or so. I've no problem buying on the secondary market to do so. Still, I think this has yet shake out fully and I'm not sure we have seen the last of ETA in the boutique market.


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Old 07-03-2013, 05:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinknocker View Post
But if the watch was the same price? That seems to be the problem, to me. Less expensive movement, but the watch is still at a high price.

I personally would go with the 9015 just because I don't have one and I have a couple of 2824's.

Well, what is the current price that companies can buy the Miyota 9015 for.

And what is the cost of the Eta , if you can get one? And when I say one, if a a company were able to get 100-200 eta movements.

Someone elsewhere mentioned Steinhart. Either they have a deal with Swatch, or they bought those movements years ago and just have a stock pile of thousands of them that they are using. That would be my guess.

I think many dont realize the cost of the watch as a whole is not based solely on the movement being used. Also it has to do with the amount of watches being produced, if its an off the shelf case, or if you had to pay for tooling and engineering to make your own design, upfront factory costs, shipping etc, that all factors into how a company prices a watch.

I have no issues paying upwards of $500 for a Miyota 9015 based watch. Why? Because it works great, and if the rest of the watch is what I consider quality, then its no big deal.
I have never had swiss snobbery and honestly if the movement performs I can care less whether its Swiss, Japanese, Chinese, US, or whatever else.
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