I just now found this thread. I see there is pertinent info here so I don't want to start another thread when this one seems appropriate. I notice all the previous posts were made in two days, 4 months ago. But Kinetics are a lot older than that, so this is fair!
My basic question is, what's with the rumor that Kinetics are a failure?
No. They are a success, but overshadowed by citizen's solar charging watches to some extent.
I heard a jewelry store owner tell me this, and he has Seikos for sale, but no Kinetics. I've talked to other jewelers who carry Seikos and they don't like to give me any specific information about Kinetics. It seems they are afraid of the topic, and don't want to be associated with controversy, as if selling watches is difficult enough already, so why invite problems? I followed through some of the tutorials online that describe retrofitting older Kinetics, Li-ion cell replacing the capacitor, and it sounded like the upgrade generally solves the problem.
Kinetics are good, but it might be, perhaps that seiko is phasing them out. I really cannot speak for the companys long term plans, but I have seen them pull out of several stores near me, and it gives me the impression (not trying to start a rumor -- so I emphasize this is mere speculation) that they are moving upmarket with their brand. It seems citizen has filled the void too in the stores here. The silence could be the jewelers just not knowing what is going on, or a bad taste left from the way seiko is doing what they are doing. They might be idiots too and not really know what they are talking about -- dont underestimate how stupid even an "expert" may be.
It seems to me that understanding the way a capacitor works compared to a Lithium-ion battery goes a long way to appreciating how the upgrade would be a big help. I found warnings online that urge readers to be aware that some Kinetics have been damaged by people replacing the rechargeable cell with a Silver Oxide or Alkaline battery. It says this is a very serious mistake, since these batteries do not accept recharging and Kinetic movements will try to recharge them, causing them to leak acid, which will destroy your movement. I have to wonder if this is not a big part of the "failure" theory that seems to have caught on among even watch repair "experts"?
A capacitor holds charge by simply charging the plates positive and negative. A battery does it by a chemical reaction. In the case of the li ion battery of seikos kinetics, the reaction is reversible, and hence, rechargeable. Most chemical reactions take a fair amount of charge to react, but li ions in the case of seiko necessarily react from a simple more easily charged chemical reaction -- and hence strong chatge development from wrist movent is enough, but slow turns on a winder will not be as efficient, but it will work to some extent unlike what has been said. Lastly, the other type of batteries are not rechargable, so the applied charge just heats the battery, and causes degradation of the battery. So, you cannot use these other types of batteries, or even a rechargable that isnt li ion of the reaction seiko uses, as it will not charge from the weak charge development in the seiko charging mechanism.
I saw an older Kinetic at a pawn shop, and the owner showed it to me. He shook it up a bit and it started running. Then he set it back in the display case, and I noticed that after about 5 minutes it stopped running again. So I questioned him on that, and he didn't seem to know what's up. He read the model number off the back (or was it the face?) using his loop, and I wrote it down. That's when I went home and studied the capacitor topics online. I went back to the pawn shop, and asked the owner about capacitor vs. Li-ion, and he was ambiguous in a sly way, pretending to be knowledgeable, but I could easily see that he in fact was ignorant of the whole topic, based on what I had learned online.
Sounds like he was an idiot wishing not let it on.
One website says that if you find a Kinetic that you really like, and it needs a capacitor extraction procedure, it could be well worth your effort, but he suggests that you should first really appreciate the watch itself, because if you don't, just fixing its problem may not be enough to make you change your regard for the watch. I thought that was an interesting attitude.
Me too, dont we all operate that way? It has to be worth it to invest, right?
My thinking is, that due to this "theory" that Kinetics are a failed technology, which is apparently just a bad rumor that has gotten out of control, there might be a number of abandoned Kinetics at large, like in pawn shops, that could be perfectly serviceable if the capacitor is changed out. Even among members here, some may not want to deal with the issue and are on the verge of "throwing away" their Kinetic. But this forum is a great place to find a new potential owner who is eager to purchase your discarded watch, so think twice!
Yes, bad theory. I probably wont buy, but i think there are certainly people who will. Just have my own particular watch wants, and kinetic is already off my list as ive had one upwards of 15 years.
The post above that says winders don't move fast enough to recharge Kinetics: this makes sense to me. And thank you for that tidbit, because I had not seen it anywhere else. It might be in the owner's manual, but the watch I saw in the pawn shop doesn't come with a manual, so the buyer would have to do his own homework. I would guess that Kinetic manuals can be viewed online.
Yes they can, just google the model. I dont think say much on the subject. I explained it above though.
I suppose I'd like to know if Seiko is going to continue to offer other parts for them in the event that the various other components need to be replaced in the future. The tiny generator that spins at 100,000 rpm (one hundred thousand is not a typo) seems like something that could be vulnerable to corrosion or defects due to age, and it's rather unlikely that any "aftermarket" substitute could ever be a good idea. So that would best be a Seiko factory part, no?
15 years, still fine! I think if its cared for the rotor is not an issue - just look at all the old autos still around.
All in all, Kinetic fans must be a very narrow market share. I saw one opinion claiming that Seiko was setting aside the Kinetic department to focus resources on more widely accepted lines. Perhaps this is referring to the new Spring Drive technology? But I'm attracted to how much more affordable Kinetics are, compared to Spring Drive models.